SirHustlerEsq

CAAD10/X rules all.

roadwarrior

really good single malt scotch.

roadwarrior

If what you say is correct, why do bike manufacturer's limit the top component set on an entry level frame? Why does Trek (for example) not make an Ultegra bike on their 1 Series frames? Why would they not want to provide buttery smooth shifting to a rider on an entry level frame?

Answer: Because no one who knows anything about bikes would buy it.

FWIW...the CAADX is one level below (in aluminum tubing) the CAAD10. But for another hundred bucks you can get a Super X.

And carbon is not over hyped.

The most important part of the bike is the frame, then the wheels, components are last. A shifter cannot overcome the vibration of an entry level aluminum frame. I do not consider the X entry level, by the way.

roadwarrior

The 10 is a step above the X. The 10 uses the 6069 tubing, the X 6061, but both are very nice.

RPK79

I like my 853 steel frame and 105 components because the shifting and the road buzz damping are both buttery smooth like movie theater popcorn.

Dave Mayer

I have bikes in titanium, carbon, alu and steel (several). The steel bikes have forks that are either steel, alu or carbon. Bottom line is that I can't tell the difference between them. They sure sound different on the road, and the carbon bikes are somewhat easier on the climbs, but that is the limits of my perception.

Vertical frame flex is miniscule relative to tire or saddle deflection. Hell, even the seatpost flex is greater than the frame. So if you want a plush bike, as the OP states - install some fat tires and reduce the inflation pressure accordingly.

As far as performance, wheels definitely make the big difference. A 1,200 gram set of tubular wheels transforms even a gas-pipe bike-boom era POS. The reduction in rotating weight and improvements in acceleration is remarkable.

There is no overlap in terms of wheel performance: all of the tubular wheelsets, even the 40 year old 'training wheels' with 6 cogs and 36 spokes and GP4 rims feel 'faster' than all of the clincher wheels in my stable, no matter how much I've paid for them.

rpenmanparker 

At least you guys could spell it right. Everybody knows it's buttah"

clausen

All you can compare is the two bikes. Where ALL components identical during the test? Did you calibrate your butt? You can not make a statement on ride quality, stiffness or lightness of a frame material with a sample of 1.

clausen

Since tires are the contact point to the road they play the largest role on how a bike feels. Assuming the bike fits correctly. Being curious last year I swapped wheels with another club member to see how a different tire felt. Same wheels Campagnolo Zondas only difference was the tires and pressure. The difference between inexpensive low TPI tire at high pressure 120 psi and quality high TPI tire at a proper pressure of 95/105 was a harsh and excited vs smooth and stable. This was noticed by both myself and the other cyclist.

BigJeff

Some prefer a stiffness in their AL frame, like Nighttrain or Thunderbird.

therhodeo

If you take a guy used to riding something like gatorskins and blind tested him on something like a Vittoria Open Pave they would swear they were on the most cushy frame out there.

PaulRivers

All of these threads are personal opinions, including my own post here. But I think I disagree with just about everything the OP said. And I say this owning 4 bikes, ranging from an $800 road bike to a $5,000 high end specialized.

"The caadx is so much more enjoyable to ride. The shifting is just so smooth."

My $800 bike has Sora, and my $5,000 bike has Dura-Ace. Within 5 minutes of riding, if both are adjusted well, I have forgotten which I'm using. Dura-Ace feels nicer than you shift, but when it misses something (which happens not totally infrequently, just like with my Sora), that smooth feeling falls apart.

That being said, I've been test riding other bikes lately and I will say that smooth shifting bikes are absolutely a joy to ride. Here's the problem - I'll ride one $3,500 frame that has Ultegra and it will shift buttery smooth. Just amazing. Awesome. I'll go ride another, different $3,500 bike from another brand that also has Ultegra (all from this year) - and the shifting is suddenly just "ok". Dunno what the heck is going on - they're usually adjusting all the bikes before I ride them.

"Just makes me beleive that with the way frames are built these days that the difference in a bike off rack is more in the components than the frame."

As I wrote above, in my experience, that's very different than my own experience. Mostly my very expensive bike is more enjoyable to ride because the carbon frame is so much smoother and less fatiguing than my aluminum bike (which isn't terrible itself or anything).

"As long as the bike fits you properly, the components to me are more important. "

Agree that fit is more important than either other factor - frame material, frame design, or components (assuming you've met basic safety requirements of course).

"Also the whole carbon is smoother thing I think is way over hyped. Tire width plays a much bigger role than frame material...If you want a bike tahat is comfy for long rides then get a bike that can fit at least 28mm tires. That will make a much bigger difference in ride quality than carbon vs aluminum."

Could not possibly disagree with you. The funny thing about carbon is that it can vary dramatically depending on choices they make when building the bike. I've ridden a Scott full carbon frame that was more jarring than aluminum, and I've ridden full carbon frames that are buttery smooth (though on the far end they usually lose a fair amount of excitement when riding them when they get really really smooth).

My full carbon top end Specialized Tarmac with 23c tires is far smooth than my aluminum specialized sequoia with 25c tires, and on how my hands feel at the end of a ride even smoother than an upright aluminum bike with 35c tires. There's difference kinds of smoothness - the ability to absord bumps on the road, and the ability to not transmit low level vibration that's fatiguing on a long ride. On the second point, I've never seen any size of tire that I've riden that's been as good as a very good carbon frame.

Of course like I said above, a frame being made of carbon itself does not necessarily do this. It has to be well designed, and designed to be vibration absorbing.

I do 30 mile rides on both my entry level aluminum Sequoia, and also my high end full carbon Tarmac, and the Tarmac ride is always noteably less fatiguing.

Gramercy

Wait, can you explain "adjusting the shifters"? That is a very vague term. As I have Sora shifters I would like the shifts to be smoother, but is it possible with allen keys or are other tools involved? Shifting into the large chain ring is pretty much the only thing that doesn't work that well on my bike.

J_Boogie

My 6700 group is only marginally butterier than my 1996 RSX group. I'll say as long as the components work, they just aren't that important.

rpenmanparker 

Liars, liars, pants on fires! Uh, well you know what I mean.

Let's be honest here. No road racing bike on earth, no matter the frame material, frame design, components, wheels, tires, saddle, whatever is "buttery smooth". That is just BS. Sure some setups are clearly less jarring than others. But on a rough road, smooth? I don't think so. I have ridden all four popular materials, all kinds of wheels and tires, saddles, seat posts, on and on. Yeah, some bikes are more comfortable than others, but the buttery stuff is just plain nonsense. The sooner you guys admit that, the sooner this conversation can make some progress.

wphamilton

I like the ratchet-chunk sound when I shift and the definite, assertive feel when it slams into gear. On the other hand if I didn't feel anything from the road I'd start wondering if I was really moving as fast as I thought I was, and it would drive me to distraction. So it's hard to say for me whether the frame or components matter more. But I think I have to go with "components" because that's what can give you the most grief. A frame, from entry-level to the best there is, I suspect after 15 or 20 minutes I'd pretty much forget about which frame I'm on ...

PaulRivers

It's actually the derailler or stuff down by the derailler that gets adjusted, not the actual shifters themselves, fyi.

SumoMuffin

When I upgraded from an aluminium Fuji to a 2012 Tarmac sl3 I immediately felt the increased stiffness and power transfer in the frame. Likewise when I upgraded from my sl3 Tarmac to my 2013 sl4 Tarmac I immediately noticed the same thing: stiffer frame and better power transfer.

As other posters have stated the frame, wheels, and tires make all the difference in a bike; none being more or less important than the other. Any one of those being crappy can ruin an otherwise good bike.

Shifters, brakes, crankset, etc. do affect the ride quality of a bike, but not as much, especially shifters and derailleurs. When adjusted properly even Claris, Sora, and Apex can feel nice, although not as nice as the upper tier stuff. Anyone who says they can't notice a difference between their Sora and DuraAce shifters either is an idiot or doesn't have them adjusted properly.

Weatherby

Cheap components may function almost as well as the good stuff, but put some real miles on both and see if there is a difference.

From my experience Dura-Ace is an order of magnitude more durable than its little brothers.

copswithguns

So you're saying I can't make a subjective comparison of 2 bikes I rode? Wow, glad I know now...

I also rode a Cadd 10, Synapse, Tarmac, etc. so no, it wasn't just one bike and yes, I did move my saddle for the test rides.

canam73

Probably overkill, but this should tell you all the adjustments you can make to the front: Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Front Derailleur Adjustments

PaulRivers

Sure, and I have some $1,000/foot speaker wire that only idiots can't tell that it really brings out the sounds and magic of their music with anything cheaper...

OldTryGuy

Beans, beans, they're good for the heart,

The more you eat, the more you....climb faster

This Renovo beauty....Full Image

canam73

You have to put the speakers on the little spikes to bring out the sounds of the good wire.

PaulRivers

Really? I hadn't heard that, but I had heard that it's only if your speakers go up to 11 in volume that they're really loud...