Boyd Altamont
04-16-14, 02:03 PM
#126
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+1; thanks for posting that.
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
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04-16-14, 05:28 PM
#127
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As I mentioned I responded to what I thought was Asain hubs vs boutique hubs. My posts are structured to address that question. I don't see how any of it could be considered diverting when what I am talking about is differences in hubs and their manufacture.
. The differences are for more subtle and things like aesthetics or catching a sale play a bigger role. All of the points I did make still apply but most of the boutique brands can check those boxes.
In my responses, when I "go big", I do so because I want to include broader agreements that are part of the answer. And I like to include specific detail when possible. I'm not sure about going off topic. In my mind I tend to stay focused on the core issue. Maybe we just see those differently.
In terms of Novatec, that was not me. You brought up the brand.
Honestly, I do see them as one of the better Asian hub makers and so do several high end wheel manufacturers but they are what they are; They are a good Asain hub manufacturer that is better than most. Their products hit certain price points and have a proven track record. In short, they are a good value and a good choice for many applications but no one, including me, is going to call them high end or cutting edge.
I don't think I have anything more to add to a thread that we have already hijacked unless Chris comes back and picks up the conversation.
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Once you start comparing boutique hubs it gets a lot trickier
In my responses, when I "go big", I do so because I want to include broader agreements that are part of the answer. And I like to include specific detail when possible. I'm not sure about going off topic. In my mind I tend to stay focused on the core issue. Maybe we just see those differently.
In terms of Novatec, that was not me. You brought up the brand.
Honestly, I do see them as one of the better Asian hub makers and so do several high end wheel manufacturers but they are what they are; They are a good Asain hub manufacturer that is better than most. Their products hit certain price points and have a proven track record. In short, they are a good value and a good choice for many applications but no one, including me, is going to call them high end or cutting edge.
I don't think I have anything more to add to a thread that we have already hijacked unless Chris comes back and picks up the conversation.
04-16-14, 07:13 PM
#128
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I believe I addressed this earlier but in case I didn't;
I would consider a boutique hub one where the criteria for choosing materials and treatments, machining processes, performing additional machining steps, and overall design are not which is most cost effective but which produces the best hub.
To put it another way instead of saying, "I want to make a hub that costs X dollars." and designing to that, the process is more like, "I want to make the best hub I can." and the cost follows from that.
As to who I would consider a boutique maker? Well, it's like the Academy Rewards, if I start listing people I know I will forget someone and they will feel left out. Goodness knows I certainly don't want to offend anyone...
I would consider a boutique hub one where the criteria for choosing materials and treatments, machining processes, performing additional machining steps, and overall design are not which is most cost effective but which produces the best hub.
To put it another way instead of saying, "I want to make a hub that costs X dollars." and designing to that, the process is more like, "I want to make the best hub I can." and the cost follows from that.
As to who I would consider a boutique maker? Well, it's like the Academy Rewards, if I start listing people I know I will forget someone and they will feel left out. Goodness knows I certainly don't want to offend anyone...
04-16-14, 08:05 PM
#129
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04-16-14, 08:18 PM
#130
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Sadly, if you run a Powertap rear, it makes the whole boutique hub thing rather hypothetical. No CK angry bees for me. 
04-17-14, 07:28 AM
#133
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Huh, that's something I hadn't considered. I'd thought about going with a wider rim, but my 23mm GP4000s already have pretty tight clearance with the front brake caliper on top. If that's to scale, it's probably a 1 mm difference at most, but that might get things a bit closer than I'd like.
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04-17-14, 08:09 AM
#134
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Huh, that's something I hadn't considered. I'd thought about going with a wider rim, but my 23mm GP4000s already have pretty tight clearance with the front brake caliper on top. If that's to scale, it's probably a 1 mm difference at most, but that might get things a bit closer than I'd like.
Like this.
04-17-14, 08:41 AM
#135
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Good to know, thanks. I'd hate to build up (or buy) a wide rimmed wheel only to find out I can't use it.
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04-17-14, 08:48 AM
#136
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The girlfriend is running 23s. I wouldn't hesitate to go with 25s if there's enough clearance and they'd be ridden by a heavier rider (even >160 "heavier"), or in a non-racing situation.
04-17-14, 08:51 AM
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^^^ Even with 23C tires, a heavier rider (aka: me) can get away with 90f/100r psi. Comfy (enough) ride with no pinch flats, rolling, etc. I don't feel the need to go to 25C - maybe I'm missing out, but I don't care - I went to the wider rims to get away from the more bulbous profile, not to replicate it with even wider tires.
04-17-14, 09:01 AM
#138
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In some situations you can add an extra serrated washer between the caliper and the frame and it will give you a smidge more clearance. The max number I've used is two washers.
Like this.
Like this.
04-17-14, 09:03 AM
#139
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Thoughts on a road tubeless conversion. I know Boyd mentioned it worked with a Stan's kit. My main concern would be corrosion, aka the Shimano problem.
04-17-14, 09:17 AM
#140
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^^^ Even with 23C tires, a heavier rider (aka: me) can get away with 90f/100r psi. Comfy (enough) ride with no pinch flats, rolling, etc. I don't feel the need to go to 25C - maybe I'm missing out, but I don't care - I went to the wider rims to get away from the more bulbous profile, not to replicate it with even wider tires.
04-17-14, 09:50 AM
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Are you riding 25's on your Rail's? I decided to play with different tires and ordered the 4000s II's but could only get 23's. They seem pretty wide and comfy, but thought I might go to 25's next time around (I had 25's on the RFSC 38's but of course it was a much narrower rim)
04-17-14, 09:53 AM
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Are you riding 25's on your Rail's? I decided to play with different tires and ordered the 4000s II's but could only get 23's. They seem pretty wide and comfy, but thought I might go to 25's next time around (I had 25's on the RFSC 38's but of course it was a much narrower rim)
1) I use the rear on both bikes, and the S1 wouldn't even take a 25mm on Belgiums without rubbing.
2) As a triathlete, I really really care about aero, and 23mm is better than 25mm for that, by avoiding the "pinch" where the tire narrows at the rim bed before the rim widens.
04-17-14, 10:03 AM
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No, I'm not, for two reasons:
1) I use the rear on both bikes, and the S1 wouldn't even take a 25mm on Belgiums without rubbing.
2) As a triathlete, I really really care about aero, and 23mm is better than 25mm for that, by avoiding the "pinch" where the tire narrows at the rim bed before the rim widens.
1) I use the rear on both bikes, and the S1 wouldn't even take a 25mm on Belgiums without rubbing.
2) As a triathlete, I really really care about aero, and 23mm is better than 25mm for that, by avoiding the "pinch" where the tire narrows at the rim bed before the rim widens.
04-17-14, 11:05 AM
#144
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Thanks! It seems to the naked eye that the 23's on the Rail's are at least as wide as the 25's on the RFSC's and that diagram above seems to jibe. I was thinking of pressure more than anything else, Also with the RFSC's I seemed prone to pinch flats with none yet on the Rail's, wonder if this is also an advantage of wider rims or just chance...
04-17-14, 01:55 PM
#145
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It's about 1-2 watts at 30mph according to manufacturer data. Most of the aero gains are the front wheel so I'd at least run a 25mm tire in the rear if it will clear your frame.
04-18-14, 07:21 AM
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re width measurements:
I run Conti GP 4000S 25mm on both my road bikes. I don't have a digitial caliper, just an in- expensive mechanicial one, but on both the Vitesse and the Altamonts tire width is @ 27.3 mm @ 70psi.
FWIW, all three of my road frames are Cannondales, CAAD 8, a CAAD 9 and an alloy Synapse. Tires clearence is not an issue with any frame/fork combo I have, although I'm not sure I could go much bigger.
I run Conti GP 4000S 25mm on both my road bikes. I don't have a digitial caliper, just an in- expensive mechanicial one, but on both the Vitesse and the Altamonts tire width is @ 27.3 mm @ 70psi.
FWIW, all three of my road frames are Cannondales, CAAD 8, a CAAD 9 and an alloy Synapse. Tires clearence is not an issue with any frame/fork combo I have, although I'm not sure I could go much bigger.
04-18-14, 11:37 AM
#148
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Sorry I post this, I did not know it would trun into a war. I will say that I did look at Flo wheels, just wasn't down with the whole group buy thing. If they want more business they need to have wheelset when people want them.
I bought the Bodys on their rep and customer servive reviews. I am not sorry I did and hope to get home to put more miles on them soon.
As for the 23 vs 25, on my Felt I have about 3mm of clearance, on the SST it is only 2mm with 23mm tires.
I bought the Bodys on their rep and customer servive reviews. I am not sorry I did and hope to get home to put more miles on them soon.
As for the 23 vs 25, on my Felt I have about 3mm of clearance, on the SST it is only 2mm with 23mm tires.
04-18-14, 04:05 PM
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Sorry I post this, I did not know it would trun into a war. I will say that I did look at Flo wheels, just wasn't down with the whole group buy thing. If they want more business they need to have wheelset when people want them.
I bought the Bodys on their rep and customer servive reviews. I am not sorry I did and hope to get home to put more miles on them soon.
I bought the Bodys on their rep and customer servive reviews. I am not sorry I did and hope to get home to put more miles on them soon.
Nice choice on the Boyd's - post pics of them on your bike!
04-18-14, 04:31 PM
#150
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This is getting a bit old, but still interesting esp with regard to the methodology:
https://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15441821.html
They have started a more updated test in 2011, but it doesn't seem to be complete? (EDIT: the complete 2011 testing is in French)
Full carbon wheels Great wheel test 2011 ? Introduction | Roues Artisanales
https://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15441821.html
They have started a more updated test in 2011, but it doesn't seem to be complete? (EDIT: the complete 2011 testing is in French)
Full carbon wheels Great wheel test 2011 ? Introduction | Roues Artisanales
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Last edited by Rocket-Sauce; 04-18-14 at 07:13 PM.