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Thread: Power Meter

  1. #1
    Senior Member TexMac's Avatar
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    Power Meter

    Anyone with experience using iBike Newton cycling power meter? Good/bad? is it worth it. It's the cheapest out there but not sure.

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    RidingLikeCrazy! rangerdavid's Avatar
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    I don't have experience with that one, but I do have a Quarq on my sram red bike, and I'm getting a Stages for my Di2 bike. Can't beat the Stages for light weight, ease of installation and service, and most of all PRICE!!! It's half as much as a quarq.
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    John Wayne Toilet Paper nhluhr's Avatar
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    It is not a power meter. A power meter measures force and speed and therefore has a direct power measurement. The iBike measures wind, gradient, speed, heartrate, etc and extrapolates power based on certain assumptions. Basically it measures almost everything except power and then makes an educated guess at the actual power.

    If you want to have power data for training purposes, it's not the right tool. If you want to have approximate power to tell your friends about, it is probably fine.
    Last edited by nhluhr; 04-23-14 at 11:26 AM.

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    Damn, stages for $699 for my 105, that's cheaper than I expected. Though I'm not training for anything. Wonder why some use those bulking SRM when the stages is so small!

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    Beer >> Sanity bikerjp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
    Damn, stages for $699 for my 105, that's cheaper than I expected. Though I'm not training for anything. Wonder why some use those bulking SRM when the stages is so small!
    Might be able to get it cheaper via your LBS. Got mine for 20% off.
    Climbs like a stone, descends like two...

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    John Wayne Toilet Paper nhluhr's Avatar
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    the Stages power meter only measures left leg directly and then doubles the reading to provide total power. This is either "accurate enough" or deficient depending on how you look at it. I'm not saying the SRM is worth it, but it measures both legs and is a full crank.

    If you want both-leg full-crank measurement, the Quarq is an extremely competitive option, but of course it's not available in Shimano.

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    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
    Damn, stages for $699 for my 105, that's cheaper than I expected. Though I'm not training for anything. Wonder why some use those bulking SRM when the stages is so small!
    SRM's actually measure power, where as stages just measure your left leg power and multiply by 2. Also reliability. My srm was only a bit more for the stages, and it was basically brand new..
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

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    Beer >> Sanity bikerjp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    SRM's actually measure power, where as stages just measure your left leg power and multiply by 2. Also reliability. My srm was only a bit more for the stages, and it was basically brand new..
    The only time the left leg only would be an issue is if you wanted to compare numbers from a Stages to something else and in a rider with a leg imbalance. If comparing to ones own data over time this shouldn't matter much. Injuries would skew data too but aside from that your Stages power number should be a fairly consistent measure and something you can use to train. It just might not mean as much to someone with a different PM. If one could borrow the Garmin Vecto for a couple rides it would be an interesting comparison point as you could ride with both PMs and compare.
    Climbs like a stone, descends like two...

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    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    ...Of course a PowerTap G3 hub is <$800 now so not a bad way to go, especially if you can build the wheel around it yourself.
    Ride more. Fret less.

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    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    powertap > stages.

    yeah stages isn't terrible, but why waste that much money on something that only does half the job?
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

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    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    you give someone money they will ride what every you want. They are also riding pinerellos which are typically heavier and less aerodynamic than other possible bike sponsors.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

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    power2max is a great option for crank-based power meters and it can be pretty affordable. it compensates for temperature drift, options for some cranks with removable spiders, and does L-R balance as well. I'd probably get that over the quarq since it doesn't account for temperature drift and is substantially more expensive.

    I don't like the left-balance-doubling Stages, but it is a nice affordable option that doesn't add a lot of weight. no carbon crank options, unless you're willing to mix alloy and carbon for your crank arms.

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    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    I'd go with Powertap or Power2Max. Easily.
    #giantsfansforgarrett

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    ...Of course a PowerTap G3 hub is <$800 now so not a bad way to go, especially if you can build the wheel around it yourself.
    $889 at Excelsports: PowerTap G3 Hed Belgium C2 Rear Wheel

    With the price of Powertaps and Stages, the case for Ibike gets slimmer and slimmer.

    Now using an Ibike with a strain gauge based power meter gives you a virtual wind tunnel which could be cool.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

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    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhluhr View Post
    It is not a power meter. A power meter measures force and speed and therefore has a direct power measurement. The iBike measures wind, gradient, speed, heartrate, etc and extrapolates power based on certain assumptions. Basically it measures almost everything except power and then makes an educated guess at the actual power.

    If you want to have power data for training purposes, it's not the right tool. If you want to have approximate power to tell your friends about, it is probably fine.
    This.

    If I had an IBike, I would always be wondering how accurate it really is.

    I bought a used wired PowerTap wheel for $250 instead.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

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    Beer >> Sanity bikerjp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    powertap > stages.

    yeah stages isn't terrible, but why waste that much money on something that only does half the job?
    Actually, if you assume a 5% variance in your left/right balance it does 95% of the job.
    Climbs like a stone, descends like two...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    powertap > stages.
    Not if you ever want to use another wheel for any reason.

    yeah stages isn't terrible, but why waste that much money on something that only does half the job?
    Because it's good enough.

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    Everyone I know who has used an iBike always said they sucked and has always gotten a real powermeter eventually.

  20. #20
    John Wayne Toilet Paper nhluhr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
    This.

    If I had an IBike, I would always be wondering how accurate it really is.

    I bought a used wired PowerTap wheel for $250 instead.
    Even worse than its questionable accuracy is its definite lack of repeatability. It requires you to assume certain drag values which are dependent on rider position, clothing, etc, and uses those as part of its algorithm. If you don't wear the same outfit day-by-day then your results would be different each day, making it useless for actual precision training. You'd be better off scrapping the hassle and just going by RPE.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibike website
    Aerodynamic and Frictional Drag Coefficients

    As part of initial setup the user enters total bike/rider weight, tire size and road surface, rider height, and ride position. From these inputs the rider’s CdA (coefficient of drag), and bike Crr (coefficient of rolling resistance) are determined.
    It's not even using known Cda or Crr values - it's literally guessing based on generalized terms.

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    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter which one you're using, as long as it's repeatable it's perfectly suitable for your purposes, unless you need the highest possible power number to brag about or you want to obsess about leg imbalance.

    One thing I dislike about SRM is that you have to send the meter in if you change chainrings. And price, good lord.
    One thing I dislike about PowerTap is that you can only use the one wheel. once you start getting multiple wheels you're in a situation where you may as well shell out for a crank based power meter.
    Of course, with crank based power meters, now you're limiting yourself to one bike unless you REALLY want to spend some money.

    Power2Max seems to be the best over all cost/value solution in today's market with stages & powertap making a similar strong case.

    It's not cheap, no matter what you choose, that's for sure. it IS cheaper than it was even 2 years ago though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMac View Post
    Anyone with experience using iBike Newton cycling power meter?
    I don't have any experience with the Newton but I've examined the output of the previous 3 generations of iBike against PTs and SRMs. Every time iBike has released a new version they claim 1) that it is as good as an SRM or a PT, and 2) that it is an improvement over the previous release.

    I've also spent some time examining the Stages compared to various other power meters. Like all power meters, it has good points and not-so-good points. Its data quality is not equivalent to a PT or SRM but it's not bad. I wouldn't use it for QA analyses, or for drag estimation, or for sprint training, but not many people do those kinds of things. Sky probably won't be looking at QA analysis or sprint training, and they can afford to send their riders to the wind tunnel for drag estimation.
    Last edited by RChung; 04-23-14 at 04:44 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member lsberrios1's Avatar
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    I'll just say this quick thingy. Without a power meter you are not a real cyclist. And I don't mean Stages, Pioneer, whatever... I mean SRM, Quarq and maybeeeee... power tap. In that order specifically. Good luck!
    Cat 6 going on PRO....

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    Senior Member TexMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsberrios1 View Post
    I'll just say this quick thingy. Without a power meter you are not a real cyclist. And I don't mean Stages, Pioneer, whatever... I mean SRM, Quarq and maybeeeee... power tap. In that order specifically. Good luck!
    Thanks for your input but I was not looking to be a "real cyclist" just a cyclist with a power meter

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    Senior Member TexMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post
    I don't have experience with that one, but I do have a Quarq on my sram red bike, and I'm getting a Stages for my Di2 bike. Can't beat the Stages for light weight, ease of installation and service, and most of all PRICE!!! It's half as much as a quarq.
    I have a sram force crank and I was told that stages don't work on carbon cranks

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