Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

How hard would it be to add an anemometer to a cycling computer?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

How hard would it be to add an anemometer to a cycling computer?

Old 05-05-14, 08:41 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
How hard would it be to add an anemometer to a cycling computer?

That's a wind gauge. I'm thinking you could have sensors on all four corners of the computer and an algorithm that applied the actual bike speed and determined the actual direction and strength of the wind as well as the effective direction and strength in combination with the motion of the bike.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 09:02 AM
  #2  
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,273

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times in 353 Posts
Ibike uses this I believe for their virtual power meter.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 09:03 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 618

Bikes: Opus Vivace F1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Direction would be the most important wind measurement to me - so I can constantly modify my route and keep it at my back.
dmcdam is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 09:07 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by dmcdam
Direction would be the most important wind measurement to me - so I can constantly modify my route and keep it at my back.
That's a neat trick. How do you get home?

Seriously, I eat the wind on the way out and have it behind me coming home. I am just finding that weather.com is seriously underreporting the wind speed here in Houston lately (at least I hope that is the problem!). I would like an accurate measurement in situ.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 10:55 AM
  #5  
Perceptual Dullard
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,395
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 900 Post(s)
Liked 1,122 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
That's a wind gauge. I'm thinking you could have sensors on all four corners of the computer and an algorithm that applied the actual bike speed and determined the actual direction and strength of the wind as well as the effective direction and strength in combination with the motion of the bike.
It's easy to mount an anemometer on a bike. It's hard to mount an anemometer that will tell you air speed and yaw angle with reasonable precision, though that obviously depends on what you mean by "reasonable precision."
RChung is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 10:58 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 669

Bikes: Colnago C59 Italia, 1981 Bianchi Pista

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RChung
It's easy to mount an anemometer on a bike. It's hard to mount an anemometer that will tell you air speed and yaw angle with reasonable precision, though that obviously depends on what you mean by "reasonable precision."
Correct. Neat idea, though.
Young Version is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 10:59 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by RChung
It's easy to mount an anemometer on a bike. It's hard to mount an anemometer that will tell you air speed and yaw angle with reasonable precision, though that obviously depends on what you mean by "reasonable precision."
I'm wondering if tiny strain gauges or pressure sensors could do the trick. I would think +\- 0.2 mph would be plenty good enough precision.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:00 AM
  #8  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Variances in mounting location, body position, etc. would render it useless. Cool idea, though.
Savington is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:09 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
halfspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Posts: 12,275

Bikes: are better than yours.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I use the "stop and put a wet finger in the air" method of determining wind direction. Flawless and free.
__________________
Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
halfspeed is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:15 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
lsberrios1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844

Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If by anemometer you mean a meter to measure how anemic you are riding that day, then I think a power meter can do the trick . While the speed changes depending on wind, elevation etc. the power meter measures your direct performance. However, if what you want is an indicator of wind direction then you could possibly invent something!

I say the problem is that the wind generated by speed will obviously indicate that it's always a headwind and putting a barrier would then overrule everything coming from the front completely. You could have some sort of speed sensor matched with a GPS device. The Speed sense will calculate the wind produced at certain speed with no other factors included. The GPS will help to indicate where you are headed or your bicycle is pointing and as a base it will substract the windspeed produced by speed to the total that intakes directly from the front. In the back you can do the same thing but the inverse, with the speedsense doing the same. From the sides just regular sensors since you are not moving on those dimensions.

I know it's probably a stupid idea but it made me think!.. which is something that I don't do often.
__________________
Cat 6 going on PRO....
lsberrios1 is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:16 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
lsberrios1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 2,844

Bikes: '13 Spech Roubaix SL4 Expert

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by halfspeed
I use the "stop and put a wet finger in the air" method of determining wind direction. Flawless and free.
Problem is having to stop every time you take a turn.
__________________
Cat 6 going on PRO....
lsberrios1 is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:27 AM
  #12  
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I am just finding that weather.com is seriously underreporting the wind speed here in Houston lately (at least I hope that is the problem!). I would like an accurate measurement in situ.
Me too, it's been like living in a wind tunnel this Spring in the Hill Country.
"Official" wind speed is far less than what's whipping up out here so I'm going to mount a digital weather station on my rooftop to get the real wind speed. It matters to me since I like to ride my FG, but not in "surprise red flag" conditions when a road bike would be grudgingly deployed instead.

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:39 AM
  #13  
Perceptual Dullard
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,395
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 900 Post(s)
Liked 1,122 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I'm wondering if tiny strain gauges or pressure sensors could do the trick. I would think +\- 0.2 mph would be plenty good enough precision.
Well, there are lots of alternatives. +/- 0.2 mph is about 0.1 m/s which is often good enough. The Aerostick uses differential pressure sensors so it can tell airspeed and yaw angle within a degree or so, but there are other ways to do it. One of the problems is getting the sensors out far enough away from the bike/cyclist so that you don't get "bow wave" effects. You can do that by by going out in front, or up above, or out to the side of the bike/cyclist, but for the Aerostick we went out front to minimize drag contribution from the sensor itself. But if you don't need this kind of precision you can go much simpler.
RChung is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:40 AM
  #14  
Perceptual Dullard
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,395
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 900 Post(s)
Liked 1,122 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by Bandera
Me too, it's been like living in a wind tunnel this Spring in the Hill Country.
"Official" wind speed is far less than what's whipping up out here so I'm going to mount a digital weather station on my rooftop to get the real wind speed. It matters to me since I like to ride my FG, but not in "surprise red flag" conditions when a road bike would be grudgingly deployed instead.

-Bandera
Official wind speed is measured at 10 meters above ground. Wind speed at about 1 meter (which is what affects cyclists) is less, sometimes quite a bit less depending on local terrain and vegetation.
RChung is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:42 AM
  #15  
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
I'd go for a rain gauge as well.

It shouldn't be too hard to monitor perceived wind speed and direction out in front of the bike with software to calculate the actual wind speed and direction based on that. Why you'd want to bother is the question.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 11:55 AM
  #16  
Perceptual Dullard
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,395
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 900 Post(s)
Liked 1,122 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by StephenH
Why you'd want to bother is the question.
I can think of reasons.
RChung is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 12:16 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by lsberrios1
If by anemometer you mean a meter to measure how anemic you are riding that day, then I think a power meter can do the trick . While the speed changes depending on wind, elevation etc. the power meter measures your direct performance. However, if what you want is an indicator of wind direction then you could possibly invent something!

I say the problem is that the wind generated by speed will obviously indicate that it's always a headwind and putting a barrier would then overrule everything coming from the front completely. You could have some sort of speed sensor matched with a GPS device. The Speed sense will calculate the wind produced at certain speed with no other factors included. The GPS will help to indicate where you are headed or your bicycle is pointing and as a base it will substract the windspeed produced by speed to the total that intakes directly from the front. In the back you can do the same thing but the inverse, with the speedsense doing the same. From the sides just regular sensors since you are not moving on those dimensions.

I know it's probably a stupid idea but it made me think!.. which is something that I don't do often.
I would think sensors on all sides with the appropriate software to do the additions and subtractions that would yield the correct real and apparent wind speeds and directions.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 12:23 PM
  #18  
In the wind
 
mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Calgary AB
Posts: 1,337

Bikes: Giant TCR Advanced Team, Lemond Buenos Aires, Giant TCX, Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 54 Posts
A couple of these should get you started. You'll want to connect them to appropriate pitot tubes and log the data somehow.
mercator is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 12:26 PM
  #19  
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,586

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times in 392 Posts
Once it starts, it won't be long before the manufacturers offer full meteorological stations for bicycles.
Reynolds is online now  
Old 05-05-14, 12:31 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Cyclosaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Chicago Western 'burbs
Posts: 1,065

Bikes: 1993 NOS Mt Shasta Tempest, Motobecane Fantom Cross CX, Dahon Speed D7, Dahon Vector P8, Bullitt Superfly

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They have them for smartphones already...the trick would be to have the phone mounted properly.

VAAVUD Wind Meter for Smart Phones | West Marine
Cyclosaurus is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 12:31 PM
  #21  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,569

Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1102 Post(s)
Liked 2,135 Times in 1,440 Posts
Or you use a weather app on your phone.

Right now I can see a dozen reporting stations within ten miles of my house.
StanSeven is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 12:34 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times in 228 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I would think sensors on all sides with the appropriate software to do the additions and subtractions that would yield the correct real and apparent wind speeds and directions.
You might make it work with only two, but you also need to know the ambient air pressure. Many air speed sensors are designed as a kind of fluidic comparator for this reason, with one pressure plate in a still area.

I've kicked this around with a buddy in the context of avionics and yes it's possible up to a point but it gets tricky real fast for any kind of precision. I understand one of the attractions: with speed, weight and grade you could get a power estimation (since there are experimental methods to calibrate for drag-area). There is a relatively cheap product which purports to do this. But the devil is in the details, and it's not so easy to get enough precision that the results aren't thrown off too much to be useful.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 12:35 PM
  #23  
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,273

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times in 353 Posts
Originally Posted by StephenH
I'd go for a rain gauge as well.

It shouldn't be too hard to monitor perceived wind speed and direction out in front of the bike with software to calculate the actual wind speed and direction based on that. Why you'd want to bother is the question.
To calculate power, given speed, weight, cda, slope, ala I bike.

Or you could just get a real power meter.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 01:31 PM
  #24  
Beer >> Sanity
 
bikerjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,449

Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would you really need more than one front facing sensor? If the computer knows ground speed it should be able to use a simple algorithm to calculate wind speed. Direction would be harder but a 30mph measured wind speed and 20mph bike speed would mean an effective 10mph headwind which might be all that really matters. Of course, maybe an ANT+ helmet mounted sensor would provide more info. Seems it would need to be out of the way of your body though for any accurate recording.
bikerjp is offline  
Old 05-05-14, 01:44 PM
  #25  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,192
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2732 Post(s)
Liked 953 Times in 784 Posts
I'm impressed, not one enemameter joke yet.
djb is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.