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    Wobbling bike rear wheel hit - wheelset selection for rough roads

    Hi guys,

    This is my first question on the forum and I am not sure if this is right place to put it

    I am new in cycling community, I bought my self FELT Z85 recently and have been commuting since then 17 miles. Some parts of the road are so filled with holes that few days back I have discovered that my rear wheel is bent. Took it to mechanic for truing but he told me that can not be fixed. He was able to make it as true as possible and while I was riding this morning to work discovered that my bike is wobbling.

    I am not sure if I should ride in this condition because maybe I could cause more damage?!

    I am 240 lbs, 6' tall.

    My felt has Mavic CPX22 stock wheels.

    I am asking what would you recommend wheel-set for commuting?

    Thank you so much.

    Irf

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    Definitely check out the commuting or clydesdale forums here. Both are really helpful. Most of the "bulletproof" stuff in the road forum probably still isn't suitable for commuting on really rough roads.

  3. #3
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    you don't need a new wheelset, just rebuild the wheel with a new rim.

    If you want something bullet proof a DT Swiss RR 585 would fit the bill.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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    Also make sure you're using appropriate width tires at an appropriate pressure for your weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    you don't need a new wheelset, just rebuild the wheel with a new rim.

    If you want something bullet proof a DT Swiss RR 585 would fit the bill.
    A wheelset like the CPX22 is <$200 for the full set. A rebuild would only be worth it for a DIY job or if you can get a mechanic to do it super-cheap. Best bet is to buy a new wheel.

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    Your mechanic may have seen damage that the rest of us are assuming is not there. If the rim is actually bent, you can try to true it up, but it won't work perfectly. If the rim is perfectly circular, you can get uniform tension and get it true. If it's ovalled, has a flat spot, or is bent out of plane, you get uniform tension OR reasonably true, but not both.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
    A wheelset like the CPX22 is <$200 for the full set. A rebuild would only be worth it for a DIY job or if you can get a mechanic to do it super-cheap. Best bet is to buy a new wheel.
    Is it a good idea to get a set of used wheels ?

    My main purpose for used ones will be commute. I would like to get a set of wheels for weekend rides on better roads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
    Your mechanic may have seen damage that the rest of us are assuming is not there. If the rim is actually bent, you can try to true it up, but it won't work perfectly. If the rim is perfectly circular, you can get uniform tension and get it true. If it's ovalled, has a flat spot, or is bent out of plane, you get uniform tension OR reasonably true, but not both.
    Actually two mechanics worked on this wheel.

    Second one took little more effort and did a better job on truing the wheel. But you are right there is a area where wheel has a dent and I feel it doesn't work perfectly. I will need a new wheel soon.

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    You might want to get some used wheels, with more spokes and a wider rim profile, and of course wider tires. You can of course use different setups, and have the rear wheel be stronger, wider etc.

    I hate to ask but when you got the Felt from the store, did you check the tension of the wheels? If the shop just took them out of the box and assembled the bike, they may not have been properly tensioned, which would make them more suseptable to damage.

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    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    There isn't anything wrong with the type of wheelset. You're riding on tires too small for the terrain. Find out the largest diameter that will fit in your frame and ride them at the proper pressure for your weight.

    Also, work on improving your rough terrain technique. Do you cyclocross or mountain bike?

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    The Mavic CXP 22 is a strong rim but how you ride matters as well. I don't know your riding style but how you ride can make a big difference in the longevity of your wheels. So does keeping your tires pumped up properly.

    Having two wheelsets--one lighter and faster for fast rides and another stronger and heavier for commuting makes a lot of sense. For the commuter wheels, I'd run 36 hole wheel in the rear and a rim like the Mavic A319 or the Velocity Dyad. That will make for a strong commuter wheel when coupled with a 700 x 28c tire (assuming that is the largest tire that will work on your frame).
    Last edited by bikemig; 05-09-14 at 01:36 PM.

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    It's possible the wheel can still be fixed but that your mechanics can't justify the time spent to do it especially since wheelsets with this rim can be had for $150. The labor cost of a rebuild would be more than a new identical wheel. If the wobble is bad the rear has to be completely untensioned and then retentioned. It's a process that can take hours to do right especially if the rim is slightly bent. You should consider buying a new Mavic CXP 22 wheel or trying to rebuild the old one yourself. It's a skill worth learning if you ride much. All you need is the black Park Tools spoke wrench and a rack or stand to hold the bike. You can use the brakes as truing callipers. Those Mavic wheels are good but you just have to avoid potholes and such with any wheel. The virtue of buying an identical replacement wheel is you only need one and you can use the old for spare parts or to practice your wheel truing skills. In the future run fatter tires. https://www.google.com/#q=Mavic%2BCXP22+rear+wheel
    Last edited by Clem von Jones; 05-09-14 at 02:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MM80 View Post
    I am asking what would you recommend wheel-set for commuting?
    I recently picked up some Vuelta Corsa HD wheels and those things seem like they're built to take some punishment. If I remember correctly, their stated weight limit is 300 pounds. Of course, they're not the lightest wheels around, but you're not looking for racing wheels.

    They're normally $146.99 at nashbar.com, but 41% off this weekend, so $103.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
    I recently picked up some Vuelta Corsa HD wheels and those things seem like they're built to take some punishment. If I remember correctly, their stated weight limit is 300 pounds. Of course, they're not the lightest wheels around, but you're not looking for racing wheels.

    They're normally $146.99 at nashbar.com, but 41% off this weekend, so $103.
    This is a great deal.

    The total price is $146.99 and for today and tomorrow 5/12 and 5/13 there is no oversize shipping. Definitely getting this set just for commuting but will like to have Mavics CPX22 as they are lighter for longer rides. I would like to learn how to rebuilt the wheel

    In this case I will need to buy another 10 speed cassette right? Is it OK if I ride with two different cassette (new and old) with the same chain?

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    Wider is the new black.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
    I recently picked up some Vuelta Corsa HD wheels and those things seem like they're built to take some punishment. If I remember correctly, their stated weight limit is 300 pounds. Of course, they're not the lightest wheels around, but you're not looking for racing wheels.

    They're normally $146.99 at nashbar.com, but 41% off this weekend, so $103.
    Sorry maybe this is a newbie question but if I buy the wheels do they come trued or I need to take them to the shop for truing?

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    bt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MM80 View Post
    Sorry maybe this is a newbie question but if I buy the wheels do they come trued or I need to take them to the shop for truing?

    they'll be plug and play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    they'll be plug and play.
    I'd only bet on that when the wheels were built by me personally or a reputable one-person commercial operation (at a reputable shop you can get a wheel built by some one who is not so good on their first and last week on the job).

    Bringing wheels up to acceptable tension, making them uniform, and stress relieving does wonders for spoke longevity and makes wheels less likely to collapse on big bumps. This is especially true for guys like the original poster who are over 200 pounds where the wheels may not stay true or last a few thousand miles before the spokes start breaking.

    Companies selling inexpensive machine built wheels don't do that because it takes expensive labor, additional expensive machines, and/or lower production rates from their existing machines and they make more money dealing with occasional warranty returns from the statistical outliers who both weigh more and ride their bikes.

    This doesn't mean that you can take your new wheels to a shop, since many mechanics either don't understand wheels or choose to spend their time on more lucrative items like changing cables and inner tubes, just that you can't count on wheels as they come from the factory.

    Cup-and-cone bearings can also be too tight and/or dry which will lead to premature failure if not serviced before being ridden.

    My advice for the OP is to learn wheel building so he can guarantee his wheels are done right. It's time consuming not hard, as Jobst Brandt demonstrated by having his grade school sons each build a wheelset using only his book as a reference. While it takes me a lot longer (several beers) I find wheel building about as complicated as front derailleur setup.
    Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 05-12-14 at 08:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MM80 View Post
    Hi guys,

    This is my first question on the forum and I am not sure if this is right place to put it

    I am new in cycling community, I bought my self FELT Z85 recently and have been commuting since then 17 miles. Some parts of the road are so filled with holes that few days back I have discovered that my rear wheel is bent. Took it to mechanic for truing but he told me that can not be fixed. He was able to make it as true as possible and while I was riding this morning to work discovered that my bike is wobbling.

    I am not sure if I should ride in this condition because maybe I could cause more damage?!

    I am 240 lbs, 6' tall.

    My felt has Mavic CPX22 stock wheels.

    I am asking what would you recommend wheel-set for commuting?
    Shimano cup-and-cone hubs, your favorite 25mm+ deep commodity rim preferably 23mm wide (I'd try the Kinlin XC279 next - 28mm deep, 23mm wide, 500g actual), brass nipples, and 32 double butted spokes.

    Shimano and Campagnolo make durable (the spoke holes are coined so the metal grains are forged into a strong orientation) hubs with bearings that last a ludicrously long time.

    Commodity rims. You will bend rims and wear out the brake tracks. When you do it's nice to spend $40 - $80 on a rim and keep riding the wheels. With commodity parts you can do that for a very long time - I have some wheels I first built 17 years ago. With proprietary parts you'll spend more and may be out of luck when next year's model comes out.

    Beam stiffness is proportional to the cube of depth so a little deeper goes a long way in making it difficult to bend a rim past its elastic limit. 25-30mm gets you there.

    23mm wide rims will let you run wider tires without deflating them to get past your brake pads. Wider tires let you run lower pressures without risking pinch flats, and at 240 pounds you'll want something more than 25mm wide if you can.

    I just built a set with Velocity's HALO retro-reflective coating which can't be bad for evening commutes, although Velocity doesn't do a deep and wide 700C rim with the coating

    Brass nipples mean you'll get away with being klutzy truing, not lubricating properly, or running spokes that are too short (perhaps with a slightly larger replacement rim).

    Butted spokes make for a more durable wheel because they stretch more at a given tension so the rim can move more before they go slack and leave it unsupported which can lead to a collapse. I like the forged, uniform tapers at the ends of DT spokes.

    32 spokes. If you some how break one or bend the rim slightly you can make the wheel true enough to finish your ride.
    Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 05-12-14 at 08:44 PM.

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    I like Shimano wheels so far have had no issues with them. I'll likely continue to be loyal to the brand. Great discounted prices from the UK/EU online shops.

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    you don't need a new wheelset, just rebuild the wheel with a new rim.

    If you want something bullet proof a DT Swiss RR 585 would fit the bill.
    Cool idea, but you think a newbie will be able to do this? I don't have a truing stand still, it's on my list to get and clueless on how to thread the spokes properly, hub to rim.

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
    Cool idea, but you think a newbie will be able to do this? I don't have a truing stand still, it's on my list to get and clueless on how to thread the spokes properly, hub to rim.
    It's the easiest way to start building wheels. Take the new rim, and tape it to the old rim, then transfer the spokes to the new rim one by one in the exact pattern of the old rim. Admittedly, you've got to ge the wheel dished, tensioned correctly, and trued. You could always pay a shop to help you get that part right.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    It's the easiest way to start building wheels. Take the new rim, and tape it to the old rim, then transfer the spokes to the new rim one by one in the exact pattern of the old rim. Admittedly, you've got to ge the wheel dished, tensioned correctly, and trued. You could always pay a shop to help you get that part right.
    Take the opportunity to lubricate the spoke threads and rim sockets with anti-seize (ideally zinc-based) or grease. Use an acid brush with half the bristles chopped off on the spoke threads; that may or may not fit in the rim socket in which case you can use a Q-tip.

    Tape a nipple off, move the spoke, and thread the new nipple on to a consistent depth.

    You can use a spare spoke to get new nipples on there. Some people thread a nipple on upside down and jam it against the threads, then but their new nipple against the fix one for installation where they thread it on until the spoke ends touch then grab the flats and remove the installation tool.

    Note however this only works when the Effective Rim Diameters (ERD) matches, where the ERD is where the straight ends of the spokes end up after passing through the nipple bed by a few millimeters.
    Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 05-13-14 at 06:10 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
    I like Shimano wheels so far have had no issues with them. I'll likely continue to be loyal to the brand. Great discounted prices from the UK/EU online shops.



    Cool idea, but you think a newbie will be able to do this? I don't have a truing stand still, it's on my list to get and clueless on how to thread the spokes properly, hub to rim.
    Buy a Park tension meter on ebay for $60. Spoke wrench is a flathead screwdriver. Truing stand is your bike flipped upside down. I am riding on a wheelset built this way; works great.

    Read this, but tension your spokes to 100kgf front, 130 rear drive side.

    Wheels

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
    Shimano cup-and-cone hubs, your favorite 25mm+ deep commodity rim preferably 23mm wide (I'd try the Kinlin XC279 next - 28mm deep, 23mm wide, 500g actual), brass nipples, and 32 double butted spokes.

    Shimano and Campagnolo make durable (the spoke holes are coined so the metal grains are forged into a strong orientation) hubs with bearings that last a ludicrously long time.

    Commodity rims. You will bend rims and wear out the brake tracks. When you do it's nice to spend $40 - $80 on a rim and keep riding the wheels. With commodity parts you can do that for a very long time - I have some wheels I first built 17 years ago. With proprietary parts you'll spend more and may be out of luck when next year's model comes out.

    Beam stiffness is proportional to the cube of depth so a little deeper goes a long way in making it difficult to bend a rim past its elastic limit. 25-30mm gets you there.

    23mm wide rims will let you run wider tires without deflating them to get past your brake pads. Wider tires let you run lower pressures without risking pinch flats, and at 240 pounds you'll want something more than 25mm wide if you can.

    I just built a set with Velocity's HALO retro-reflective coating which can't be bad for evening commutes, although Velocity doesn't do a deep and wide 700C rim with the coating

    Brass nipples mean you'll get away with being klutzy truing, not lubricating properly, or running spokes that are too short (perhaps with a slightly larger replacement rim).

    Butted spokes make for a more durable wheel because they stretch more at a given tension so the rim can move more before they go slack and leave it unsupported which can lead to a collapse. I like the forged, uniform tapers at the ends of DT spokes.

    32 spokes. If you some how break one or bend the rim slightly you can make the wheel true enough to finish your ride.
    Thanks for reply.

    For the time being I end up buying used wider wheel on craigslist (Alexrims DA16) and 25mm tire. Took it to mechanic to confirm that the wheel is good. He replaced the cassette from my Mavic cxp22 and now I am up and running this week without no issues. The ride is comfortable I feel more safe now, this morning I had my best time on a commute very happy about it.

    My plan in near future is to get a new rim and try to rebuild my wheel with current hub.

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