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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 05-09-14, 06:02 PM   #1
dvdslw
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New Wheels? Can't Decide!!!

I've been looking to upgrade my current wheelset (Ultegra 6700's) to something lighter like a set of Dura Ace C24's or American Classic Argent's because I've tried the tubeless setup and I'm a believer but in the back of my mind I still want to try a deep carbon clincher . To be honest I'm sold on the looks more than the performance gains with Aero clinchers and I'm also right on the max weight limit for them but from what I've researched, the biggest drawback to a carbon clincher is the heat generated by braking on long descents which we simply don't have here in Florida so I'd like to know how many of you have switched from an Aluminum Clincher to a Deep Carbon Clincher of similar weight and what your impressions were? I'm looking at the new design Williams System 58's which just came out so I doubt to get any input on them but maybe some of your impressions? Here's a link, Thanks! Williams System 58 Carbon Clincher Wheelset

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Old 05-09-14, 06:10 PM   #2
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those are plenty deep.

how about these boyd's....


44mm clincher - Boyd Cycling
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Old 05-09-14, 06:12 PM   #3
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those are plenty deep.

how about these boyd's....


44mm clincher - Boyd Cycling
Those look nice too?
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Old 05-09-14, 08:34 PM   #4
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I was considering deep carbon, too, before getting the Argents, but really wanted the braking surety (because of my heavy weight and aggressive style) and easy wheel interchangeability of an aluminum brake track (no pad changes) with my existing wheelset, and so when I factored that in, I just couldn't find a carbon wheel to rival the Argents for the weight and money.

I also wanted a wide bead seat width, but that still seems to be a figure that's hard to find published. Overall width, no problem, but bead seat width is supplied by only a few. If anything was really interesting, I'd have just emailed the manufacturer.

Factoring in all the rest of the engineering and design advantages of the Argents made the choice a slam dunk for me (at my $1.5k cost limit) despite there being no published aero data. However, because of my hulking mass, I figured aero gains were probably pretty far down the list of realizable advantages, so that factor was lightly weighted anyway (e.g. compared to weight, strength, width).
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Old 05-09-14, 09:14 PM   #5
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I love my carbon clinchers, but to be honest, don't know if I'd get them if I were 225.
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Old 05-09-14, 10:10 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
I've been looking to upgrade my current wheelset (Ultegra 6700's) to something lighter like a set of Dura Ace C24's or American Classic Argent's because I've tried the tubeless setup and I'm a believer but in the back of my mind I still want to try a deep carbon clincher . To be honest I'm sold on the looks more than the performance gains with Aero clinchers and I'm pushing the weight limit of some at 225lbs. I would like to know how many of you have switched from an Aluminum Clincher to a Deep Carbon Clincher of similar weight and what your impressions were? I'm looking at the new design Williams System 58's which just came out so I doubt to get any input on them but maybe some of your impressions? Here's a link, Thanks! Williams System 58 Carbon Clincher Wheelset
You basically already have the DA C24's. The main differences are a slightly light Al alloy and lighter hub (which doesn't really matter for spinning up a wheel). I doubt you'll really notice any difference between your current wheels and the DA C24's.
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Old 05-09-14, 10:51 PM   #7
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...but in the back of my mind I still want to try a deep carbon clincher . To be honest I'm sold on the looks more than the performance gains with Aero clinchers...
You basically already have the DA C24's. ... I doubt you'll really notice any difference between your current wheels and the DA C24's.
But he will! He (and his riding buddies) will notice that his bike looks a lot more sexier. It'll make him push harder thus make him 'faster'.

Seriously, the advantages of an aero wheelset only comes into play when you get above a certain speed. It doesn't account for much on club rides.
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Old 05-09-14, 11:58 PM   #8
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I went from an aluminum clincher to a carbon tubular. The new wheelset is about 60% lighter and it made a large difference on my speed. The only problem now is that i worry about blowing a tire and being stuck in the middle of nowhere but i almost always have a riding partner...
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Old 05-10-14, 05:33 AM   #9
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You basically already have the DA C24's. The main differences are a slightly light Al alloy and lighter hub (which doesn't really matter for spinning up a wheel). I doubt you'll really notice any difference between your current wheels and the DA C24's.


That thought has been circulating in my mind as I look for wheels, so the DA's are probably out unless I find some 1/2 off somewhere. I missed out on a mistake Jensen USA had last week where they priced the DA C35's and C50's at $999.00 per set. I would have jumped on that deal but our tax refund is still in the wind.

As I said in my first post, I really like the Argents, they seem to be a decently priced wheel, tubeless ready, lighter than the DA C24's, and have a taller 30mm depth but the only thing I'm not sold on is the graphics. I have heard that they look a lot better in person and that's probably true so they are still on the top of the list.
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Old 05-10-14, 05:45 AM   #10
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But he will! He (and his riding buddies) will notice that his bike looks a lot more sexier. It'll make him push harder thus make him 'faster'.

Seriously, the advantages of an aero wheelset only comes into play when you get above a certain speed. It doesn't account for much on club rides.
Wanting deep carbon wheels I'll admit is mostly based on looks I have wanted them since before I even had a road bike, they're just sexy, especially imagining how those blacked out Williams System 58's would look on my Black Inc.? While the aero advantage might never come into play for me with a deep wheel, I ride solo and hope to take my skills to the next level with conditioning, weight training, diet, and more riding. I'm also thinking that if I go carbon it would be all the incentive I need to loose that extra 20-30lbs that has been sticking around on me!
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Old 05-10-14, 06:07 AM   #11
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Wanting deep carbon wheels I'll admit is mostly based on looks I have wanted them since before I even had a road bike, they're just sexy, especially imagining how those blacked out Williams System 58's would look on my Black Inc.? While the aero advantage might never come into play for me with a deep wheel, I ride solo and hope to take my skills to the next level with conditioning, weight training, diet, and more riding. I'm also thinking that if I go carbon it would be all the incentive I need to loose that extra 20-30lbs that has been sticking around on me!
There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting them based on looks. That was the main reason I've bought my last two sets of carbons. But you can realize some performance differences as well which is a definite plus. Personally I would expand your thinking to looks and width. As someone mentioned the new wider inside brake tracks can make a really nice difference in terms of road feel and comfort. Do the Williams have that? I hadn't checked. Plus pretty much any wheel can be set up tubeless if you like. I'd be thinking looks, inside track width, and new U shape (or some variation) vs. older V (might as well have the newest designs). Boyd, November, Reynolds, they practically all make them now. The new Shimano's are pretty darn nice as well.

Regarding heat build up. As November says on their sales sheet, "We can't change physics...", but the newer wheels use much better resins and proper brake pads help a lot as well. I live in a pretty hilly area and started to realize that I never use my brakes nearly as much as I thought I did and no longer worry about this. The only thing that I've found with my old carbons at least is that braking performance in the rain is far worse than alloy. I haven't used my new ones in the rain so not sure if that's still a factor and frankly the only time I ride in the rain is if I'm caught in it.

I think carbon rims are a lot stronger and dependable than people give them credit for (neither Bontrager nor Shimano have weight limits). All this said I'm neither 225lbs and I do own a set of alloy tubeless wheels for winter riding and days where I know I'm going to do a lot of gravel.

Good luck, make the decision that's right for you and enjoy the wheels!
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Old 05-10-14, 08:10 AM   #12
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FWIW, Easton's don't have a weight limit.


J.
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Old 05-10-14, 09:35 AM   #13
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As I said in my first post, I really like the Argents, they seem to be a decently priced wheel, tubeless ready, lighter than the DA C24's, and have a taller 30mm depth but the only thing I'm not sold on is the graphics. I have heard that they look a lot better in person and that's probably true so they are still on the top of the list.
I don't know if you ran across this Pez article on the Road Tubeless wheel set, but it has some insightful explanations of the design and engineering features by Bill Shook himself. The Road Tubeless are different from the Argent in terms of rim and spokes, but the other features are the same, e.g. lacing, nipples, bead type, so it's directly applicable to understanding what make Argents what they are, and how to compare them to other wheels.

PezCycling News - What's Cool In Pro Cycling : PEZ Reviews: American Classic Goes Tubeless
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Old 05-13-14, 10:11 AM   #14
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FWIW, Easton's don't have a weight limit.


J.
I would love to get a set of Easton's new Aero 55 Tubeless Carbon Clinchers because they are the best of all worlds when it comes to wheel selection. They have the looks, light weight, new deep and wide rim profile, and tubeless ready to boot (or not to boot). Only problem I have is their price tag which seems to hover around $2,700 per set. EC90 Aero 55 Clincher
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Old 05-13-14, 10:24 AM   #15
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I live in Boulder, Colorado (Which we all know is hilly) and always train/race on my carbon wheels with a carbon brake track. I have a set of Carbon wheels with an alu brake track as well for back up but I found that if you modulate the braking properly and use a decent set of pads that you will be just fine with all carbon. I am a "heavier" rider and have been riding my carbons for 3 + years now. I would experiment with different pad compounds as you may find some are better than other, and what you might tend to like. I currently use a set of Zipp Tangente Cork pads on my carbon wheels and have been VERY pleased with them. Cork might not bite as hard as say a SwissStop Yellow, but I like the modulation and have been very pleased with the wear on mine. Cork does tend to have a little less heat build up which im sure helps.

In essence there is nothing wrong with going Carbon either for looks or performance. With todays technology, you have vast amounts of resources available to you to test/try them out.

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Old 05-13-14, 10:29 AM   #16
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I live in Boulder, Colorado (Which we all know is hilly) and always train/race on my carbon wheels with a carbon brake track. I have a set of Carbon wheels with an alu brake track as well but I found that if you modulate the braking properly and use a decent set of pads that you will be just fine with them. I am a heavier rider and have been riding my carbons for 3 + years now. I would experiment with different pad compounds as you may find some are better than other, and what you might tend to like. I currently use a set of Zipp Tangente Cork pads on my carbon wheels and have been VERY pleased with them. Cork might not bite as hard as say a SwissStop Yellow, but I like the modulation and have been very pleased with the wear on mine. Cork does tend to have a little less heat build up which im sure helps.

Like I mentioned before, there is nothing wrong with going Carbon either for looks or performance. With todays technology, you have vast amounts of resources available to you to test/try them out.
What Carbon wheels are you riding on?
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Old 05-13-14, 11:05 AM   #17
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Im riding on 2 sets that are full carbon. The ones I use primarily right now are my Novatec W-150's and have been VERY pleased with them. They arent a very well known wheel but I had the chance to snag a new set from a couple fuji team riders while I was out in Asia. The others are FLO 60's and they have been great. The thing I love about the W-150s and I find it unique is brake track sits a few millimeters lower on the rim and I believe it is to take brake heat further away from the rim bead where the tube could heat up faster. Keep in mind not all brakes have the reach for that extra few milimeters but fortunately my ultegras have the perfect fitment to align with the track.

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Old 05-13-14, 11:39 AM   #18
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I don't know what wheels these are, but you need these. Skip to :55, those wheels are amazing, when you see it, you'll want them.

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Old 05-13-14, 04:36 PM   #19
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Looks like it doesn't spin?
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Old 05-13-14, 04:41 PM   #20
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Maybe Madfibers? Alas...finito.
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