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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 05-12-14, 02:11 PM   #26
dtrain
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Maybe the judge will decree she has to be your butler.
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Old 05-12-14, 02:14 PM   #27
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Generally uninsured motorist insurance will cover your bike, or more precisely any positive difference between its depreciated value and your deductible.

It's just like liability insurance for you, except it applies to damage done by other people who were too stupid or negligent to buy their own insurance.

Your liability policy gives a per-incident property damage maximum ($100K or whatever) without specifying what property - totaling someone's car, running over their roses, or parking in their living room.

Other coverages like comprehensive aren't going to help.
Are you an insurance adjuster who has experience with this? I'm currently going through this with a bike crash. My uninsured does not cover my bike. I am have state farm. Can you show me an example of where this has been used?
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Old 05-12-14, 02:27 PM   #28
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Are you an insurance adjuster who has experience with this? I'm currently going through this with a bike crash. My uninsured does not cover my bike. I am have state farm. Can you show me an example of where this has been used?
+1. My cars are insured through State Farm, I was run down by a car, no insurance benefits from my insurer, the guy that hit me didn't stop but if he did his insurance would not cover it because it was criminal and he would bankrupt, state would fine him $300 for "failure to render aid", and any funds attained from a lawsuit go to my health insurance company.

Basically, you're screwed.
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Old 05-12-14, 04:08 PM   #29
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Basically, you're screwed.
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Old 05-12-14, 04:12 PM   #30
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When it comes down to practical outcomes of an injury related to a car and a bicycle, bankruptcy law, the lack of prosecution for drivers, and laws requiring compensation to health insurance companies prior to person injury restitution, a driver can run over a cyclist with relative impunity.
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Old 05-12-14, 04:23 PM   #31
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Two words....... JUDGE JUDY
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Old 05-12-14, 04:33 PM   #32
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sounds like a case for jackie chiles......


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Old 05-12-14, 05:04 PM   #33
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Can't get blood from a turnip so I'd think hard before going small claims. If they lawyer up you could be in for a ride, with no real upside.

I'll bet the grandma has insurance though, and your insurance will lean on hers and come to an agreement. Take what you can get.
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Old 05-12-14, 05:16 PM   #34
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Maybe you will get lucky and the grandmother will have insurance..

Here in So Cal it's not uncommon for people to drive with no license and no insurance.. Sure you can sue but a) good luck getting them to pay regardless of the court outcome b) depending on the severity of the accident they may just slip back across the border. It happens ALL the time!
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Old 05-13-14, 12:46 AM   #35
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check with your homeowners insurance.
This

Hereabouts it works.
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Old 05-13-14, 06:33 AM   #36
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This

Hereabouts it works.
I'm a renter, without renters insurance
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Old 05-13-14, 06:51 AM   #37
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Can't get blood from a turnip so I'd think hard before going small claims. If they lawyer up you could be in for a ride, with no real upside.

I'll bet the grandma has insurance though, and your insurance will lean on hers and come to an agreement. Take what you can get.
Oy vey, where to start?

If Grandma and granddaughter have no money how would they ever afford to pay for a lawyer to represent them in Small Claims court?

Just as importantly, however, is the fact that except in very limited instances (such as a corporation being sued in SC court) lawyers are not allowed to represent clients in SC court.

To the OP: going to SC court could be the answer for you. Sue Grandma and her granddaughter. They may be judgment proof at the moment but you will eventually get your money.

Good luck.
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Old 05-13-14, 07:11 AM   #38
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The starting point for this discussion is that all these various answers are going to depend on the State you're in, and your insurance policy. If you have Uninsured Motorist coverage, it may well cover the property damage to the bike.My recollection, researching this before is that it does in many states, but not all. I believe I posted a number of cites for various states in a thread on BF awhile back.

Next, If Grandma, the owner of the vehicle had insurance, and allowed Grandaughter to drive it, Grandma's insurance likely covers your loss. Basic principal is coverage follows the vehicle, so if you let somebody drive your car, your insurance, not there's is primary.

There may be an exclusion on Grandma's policy for unlicensed permissive users, so you need the policy, and need to know the applicable state law. But it's definitely worth filing a claim against Grandma's policy.

Also, even if Grandaughter has no coverage, you may have a claim against Grandma for negligent entrustment of the vehicle to an unlicensed driver, and Grandma may have insurance coverage for that claim.

So I'd do a couple of things. One, file a claim with Grandma's insurer,and Two, read your own policy.
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Old 05-13-14, 07:17 AM   #39
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The Ohio answer for Uninsured Motorists insurance is that basic UM doesn't cover property damage (i.e. your bike) You've got to buy Uninsured Motorist Property Damage Insurance, which is an optional election. (UMPD). My bet is that if you have UMPD, it covers the bike. ( although you need to read the policy, and I didn't take the time to research that specific to Ohio)

https://www.ohiobar.org/forpublic/re...anuse-504.aspx


And by the way, this is just to provide you with general information as to what you might want to look into, not to be relied upon as legal advice.
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Old 05-13-14, 07:18 AM   #40
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Oy vey, where to start?

If Grandma and granddaughter have no money how would they ever afford to pay for a lawyer to represent them in Small Claims court?
This is your assumption. Of course, you don't know that grandma can't afford one, doesn't belong to some organization with legal representation, doesn't have a lawyer in the family, or isn't one herself. Nor do you know that grandma, or even the girl's mom, aren't smart enough to represent themselves as well as a lawyer could.

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Just as importantly, however, is the fact that except in very limited instances (such as a corporation being sued in SC court) lawyers are not allowed to represent clients in SC court.
Very much depends on the jurisdiction. And even in those states where lawyers cannot represent you in small claims, that doesn't mean one can't run the case.

I've faced lawyers in a small claims court - multiple teams of top-50 law firms in fact, plus a local counsel and the corporate law department. That was brought against a corporation of course but the fact remains, the strategies in their playbook are unbelievable if you haven't been there. I'm not speaking as someone who has lost either, and upset with the system or anything like that. But you need to asses the risks, the disruption from the whole process and the realistic objectives to evaluate whether it's worth it.

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To the OP: going to SC court could be the answer for you. Sue Grandma and her granddaughter. They may be judgment proof at the moment but you will eventually get your money.

Good luck.
If the family is destitute as some are apparently imagining, he'll never see a penny and could spend more time and energy trying to collect than his new bike would cost.

OP, lawyers may tell you differently but the reality is that going to court - even a small claims court - is a last resort after all else has failed. The implicit threat is leverage, but it's stronger before you file suit than it is afterwards. Be wary when people say, "just file in court" because it's not always just that easy and it won't necessarily turn out the way you hope.
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Old 05-13-14, 07:20 AM   #41
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Uninsured / under-insured motorist coverage will take care of you and your bike. Basically it stands in for the responsible driver's non-existent insurance.

As the name implies it only applies if the other driver doesn't have enough insurance to pay for your damages.

In some states it's optional so you may not have it.
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This in general will not cover your bike unless you specifically have insurance for it.
Uhm, not exactly. Depending on the State, and the policy, you may have to buy UMPD as set forth above, but that covers property damage in general, so you wouldn't need a rider specific to your bike.
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Old 05-13-14, 07:28 AM   #42
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You can sue in small claims court. And you will probably win. BUT, in many cases, there is really no mechanism to force them to pay even if you win.
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Old 05-13-14, 07:35 AM   #43
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You can sue in small claims court. And you will probably win. BUT, in many cases, there is really no mechanism to force them to pay even if you win.
True. There are methods to collect; wage garnishment; bank account levy; writ of execution/sheriff's sale; deposition in aid of execution.

Just recording a judgment against any real estate, and reporting it to credit bureaus may eventually motivate the debtor to satisfy the judgment.

But all of those things take time and effort. And depending on what kind of assets the debtor has, and how much effort they put into hiding their assets, they may come up empty.
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Old 05-13-14, 08:30 AM   #44
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Is this part of my auto insurance? I have health insurance myself, but it's a high deductible plan so I'd basically be paying out of pocket for that if I can't get anything elsewhere
Every state has different insurance laws. PIP is part of your auto insurance if you are in a "no-fault" state. Whether that will help or not depends on the laws of your state and the wording of your insurance contract. I would call your insurance agent and ask him to explain it to you, since that is one of the things for which you're paying him. Your agent should also be able to refer to your policy and help you with questions regarding uninsured motorist coverage (UM).

In most states a motor vehicle (aka: car) is a dangerous instrumentality, meaning the owner is responsible for any negligence of the driver (unless stolen, etc.). The owner may well have liability insurance (even at the ripe old age of 68). Your agent should help you find out, and some states have a procedure for writing a letter to the owner requiring them to respond about their insurance within a set period of time (30-60 days). Another, and sometimes excellent, resource is the insurance commissioner's office in your state.

You, without a lawyer, can bring a small claims action against the owner and operator of the car, and the cost varies from state to state. Check with the clerk of courts in your county for the cost and the jurisdictional limits. It sounds like you should have no trouble getting a judgment in small claims court, but enforcing/collecting on the judgment can be difficult, depending on the financial status of the driver/owner. Garnishment laws vary state to state, and can be restrictive, depending on the laws of your state, since many courts and lawmakers are hesitant to interfere with someone's wages. If you have any attorney friends (I know...an oxymoron), I would check with them. Most personal injury lawyers won't be interested since you apparently weren't significantly injured, but you may be able to find one who will at least talk to you for 15-20 minutes.

Good luck, and GO BUCKS!
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Old 05-13-14, 08:37 AM   #45
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You will have to enter into a process called Subrogation, where you force discovery of the other party's insurance and force a claim to be filed. If Granny had insurance and authorized her granddaughter to drive the car, then there may still indeed be insurance coverage of the accident that you can claiim from, but Granny will then lose her insurance.......or, if all you want is repair/replacement of your bike, the same subrogation process can force a settlement out of pocket from granny at the least, to keep her insiirance intact.

If you follow process 2, do NOT sign off on everything util you are sure there is no hidden injury in your part. Be safe, and the call Saul joke above is more accurate than you may think......you will want legal advice to protect yourself at ther least. Your lawyer won't be ib small claims court with you officially in most states, but havong knowledge of the process is always good.
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Old 05-13-14, 08:39 AM   #46
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thanks all,

I am in Ohio. After contacting Nationwide, it appears as though I have uninsured motorists insurance, but only for bodily damage (ie medical). They said it is ultimately up to my claims adjuster, but that basically it is not covered....which i understand but is BS as I was on the road as a legal vehicle.

I am still waiting for my claims adjuster to get back to me on finding out whether or not the gma (owner) has insurance, and to get a more detailed look at what may happen if she doesn't. I am honestly thinking she does not. If that is the case, I will most likely threaten taking both (or either) of them to SC court to hopefully scare them into giving me something (SC limit in OH is 3k). frame, fork, wheels, pedals, and a shifter are all clearly damaged, still have to take it in for a LBS assessment
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Old 05-13-14, 08:52 AM   #47
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I thought insurance on cars is on the owner of the car if the driver does not have insurance, they are responsible if they allow an uninsured person to drive?

Good to hear you're OK.
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Old 05-13-14, 08:56 AM   #48
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I thought insurance on cars is on the owner of the car if the driver does not have insurance, they are responsible if they allow an uninsured person to drive?

.
Coverage follows the vehicle. So generally, the owner's coverage also covers the permissive users of the vehicle. However, the permissive users coverage in the policy may exclude unlicensed drivers, and such an exclusion may or may not be valid in the particular jurisdiction.

Next, you have the issue of whether Grandma is covered for a claim directly against her for her negligence in allowing an ulicensed driver to operate here vehicle.
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Old 05-13-14, 09:00 AM   #49
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Well I just got a call from nationwide letting me know that medical bills are not covered under my Uninsured driver insurance since I was on a bike. They said it only covers me if I am in a vehicle with a motor and am hit by someone else in a car that does not have insurance.

So basically, it looks like I am screwed for everything
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Old 05-13-14, 09:01 AM   #50
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How much bike damage are we talking about anyway?
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