bbbean 

Welcome to bicycle racing.

chaadster

It's hard to say, because I started power training in Dec '12 as recovery from a knee injury earlier that summer, and surgery for it, an OATS procedure (cartilage transplant) in September '12. That first, benchmark TT for FTP netted 220w at 183bpm. Nowadays I'm training off 300w FTP @170bpm, but will probably be moving that wattage number up soon.

Because of the surgery issue at the start of training, it's hard to say what the growth has been, not only because I was riding with pain, but because I had been off the bike for a couple of months on the injured list. Still, I know that I would not have tested anywhere near 300 had I not been injured, so I'm sure the gains are pretty substantial.

My regular 60min training rides typically average about 250w, with Level 6 peaks around 360-400w, unless I'm doing sprint training (peak power for which is quite a bit higher).

Campag4life

RChung,
OK...you aren't alone in just training with power only you never even look at HR...HR is implicit in your sense of RPE and no doubt you learned the latter correlation through previous training with a HRM. This somewhat corresponds to Kopsis only he uses a HRM for some work outs and likely most use a HRM as an adjunct as discussed.

So the million dollar question and I believe this is the magic to all of training...how do you train with PM since you believe that many...and you are likely correct...use it more as a HRM than optimizing its specific role.

See below basic tenants of training with a PM:

Calculating Training Zones...Allen and Coggan define 7 levels for power-based training. Chris Carmichael, Joe Friel, and any other coach will have a similar set of training levels based on percentages of a fitness test number.

We're going to stick with Allen and Coggan to keep this simple. To determine each of the 7 levels, you need to take a percentage of the FTP number you determine.

• Level 1 Active Recovery = < 55% of LT
• Level 2 Endurance = 56-75% of LT
• Level 3 Tempo = 76-90% of LT
• Level 4 Lactate Threshold = 91-105% of LT
• Level 5 VO2 Max = 106-120% of LT
• Level 6 Anaerobic Capacity = 121-150% of LT
• Level 7 Neuromuscular Power = maximum effort

Again, take the FTP number you've tested and determined through your 20-minute time trial effort and apply these percentages. Write them down. These are your TRAINING ZONES. Our hypothetical rider should know for instance that if doing longer tempo intervals at say, 20 minutes each...they should be holding their wattage in a range of: 177 watts to 210 watts.
As you can probably see, figuring out your FTP is pretty straightforward stuff.

But the tough question and I would ask you RChung...how do you determine how and when to train to each of these zones to maximize your potential and to properly prepare for specific events since you believe most do not employ a PM correctly to train?
Thanks

RChung

One of the reasons I showed that plot way up above was because it illustrates that different races have different kinds of demands. If you saw a QA plot for each race that would emphasize it more. If you looked at surges and durations of surges, and gear usage, you'd get a fuller picture still. Motor pacing or HIIT train different things than long rides at Level 2, but everything will end up having some training effect. FTP is an important thing -- it's the rising tide that lifts all boats -- but it's still just one thing. If all you're interested in is FTP (and that's most people), almost anything you do to increase either volume or intensity will work, and you don't need to ride in a specific level or zone to do that. And, of course, a HRM doesn't help you tune aero or rolling drag -- but not many people do that, either. If you don't want or need to do those specific, arcane, kinds of things and you have the time to ride a HRM (or a wristwatch and a speedometer) are fine.

Campag4life

So do you utilize three distinctly different training regiments in preparation for the three basic types of racing you participate in? Or do you have a core training regiment you tweak based upon specific requirements of each type of race?

RChung

My bread-and-butter training is for FTP. Depending on what my schedule is (actually, what my wife and kids and job say my schedule is) I can do that with long rides at low intensity or shorter rides of higher intensity. I don't just do one thing. For me, the greater precision and accuracy of a power meter helps me to know when I can trade-off one type of training for another and when I can't. I do try to match my training to the demands of my goals but that's over a longer period of time, over a block of training, not for any particular single training session.

[Edited to add] Also, I have a distinct advantage at the moment, which is that I'm satisfied simply not to suck. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Campag4life

I presume you fall someplace on the CAT scale of 1 to 5. Where would that be?
thanks

RChung

I do some TT'ing but nowadays I spend most of my summers in France so my "races" are mostly the normal kinds of cut-throat rides with friends and club mates, with an occasional cyclosportif tossed in. As I said, my main goal at the moment is simply not to suck.

himespau 

I'm interested in the OP's question as well in thinking whether or not trying to get a used powermeter is worth it for me to just not suck so much riding and get faster (not a racer). Probably the answer, like in all things, is more time on the road/trainer, but family obligations limit availability. Hopefully, I can figure out how to use an HRM to train as efficiently as possible.

Campag4life

You seem to be well versed on the science of training for somebody with such a low bar for performance aka not sucking.
Your investment doesn't seem to line up with goals...of course raising a family is a much more important goal and priority.

Campag4life

If you subscribe to the underutilization of many PM's sold as a viable training tool as discussed by RChung, then I think you have your answer.
For the avid recreational fitness cyclist...I fall in this camp as well....training with a HRM is adequate and not nearly as cost prohibitive. I believe the important thing for all of us...is to train aka ride with regularity...which takes making riding a priority over life's other demands. Not always easy.

RChung

People often think that if someone is fast then they must know a lot about training; people often think if you're slow then you can't. I'm personally slow but I'm faster than I would have been without learning painful lessons, and I've been fortunate to work with genetically talented riders who have become faster than they otherwise would have. One of the things I do in my day job is looking at "value-added" in health care and education. Harvard and Stanford and MIT turn out good students, but they also started with good students. Sometimes a hospital will have poor patient outcomes but it took in the sickest patients. I try to look at things that make riders faster, whether they end up slow or fast. Because I'm not genetically gifted, I've had to learn some stuff about training to not suck as much as I otherwise would. Not sucking isn't always such a low bar.

Campag4life

Understood. Thanks very much for your contribution here. It has been very helpful to me and hopefully helped others as well.

Kopsis

When I first started trying to structure my training, I set my zones based on max HR. I determined my max by looking at HRM data from my first Cyclocross race (where there was no question that I maxed out a couple of times). Not ideal, but an improvement from no structure at all. After getting a stationary trainer, I started doing a LOT more research and gained a much better understanding of the science behind training. I now use Carmichael's 2 x 8 minute protocol for LT estimation and set HR and power zones from that.

Also note that when I do power based training, I also monitor HR. I don't adjust my targets in real-time based on the HR data, but I may adjust what I do for my next session based on what I see in the after ride analysis.

I've toyed with the idea of getting a true power meter, but I know I would not use it to its full potential (as RChung rightly points out). Nor do I need to at this stage of development. I have enough room for improvement that maximizing the efficiency of my training really won't make that much difference in terms of my gains.

chaadster

Another way to evaluate the benefit of training with power would be to ask how much (time to work towards your goals) and how long (until you realize gains).

I don't know for a fact that Pwr training is faster, but it seems like it should be.