Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-20-14, 01:54 PM   #26
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Sorry I didn't get that. I would rather buy a new cassette than a new crank.
I guess your original post doesn't make sense then. The "common folk" don't usually need a regular double crank, which is why compact cranks are so popular nowadays. So again I'll ask if the biggest gear you'll ever need is 53x13 why have a 53 to start with?
redlude97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 02:27 PM   #27
Weatherby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Bikes: Too many
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I guess your original post doesn't make sense then. The "common folk" don't usually need a regular double crank, which is why compact cranks are so popular nowadays. So again I'll ask if the biggest gear you'll ever need is 53x13 why have a 53 to start with?
Because that is what he has. What is so mysterious. Compacts are relatively recent items.

What is mysterious to me is why you think 53x13 is remotely equivalent to a 50x11 that is standard with 11s cassettes. Do the math.

SRAM, Shimano, and Campy do not make road bike gear ratios that fit many cyclist's needs. There is not a single 11s cassette on the market that meets my needs in conjunction with my compact crank. I never need the 11 or 12 cog and a couple hundred miles into a long ride, something more than 28 teeth might be nice on a 16% gradient.

13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 25, 28, 32 would be be better overall for many riders.
Weatherby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 02:33 PM   #28
Leinster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
Component companies want to standardize 50/34 and don't want to produce 53/39 anymore.
Except their pro teams want 53, 54 and 55, so they'll just have to keep producing them for the top end, won't they? Unless they start making 10t rears.
Leinster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 02:45 PM   #29
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid
Posts: 11,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
SRAM, Shimano, and Campy do not make road bike gear ratios that fit many cyclist's needs. There is not a single 11s cassette on the market that meets my needs in conjunction with my compact crank. I never need the 11 or 12 cog and a couple hundred miles into a long ride, something more than 28 teeth might be nice on a 16% gradient.

13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 25, 28, 32 would be be better overall for many riders.
Sure, but triples also make loads of sense for many riders but not enough people are interested in buying them.

It's easy to get any gear ratio you want with existing cassettes -- that's what different ring sizes are for. 34/32 doesn't give you enough low end and not willing to get a triple? No problem, get a variable bolt crank (SRAM, Campy, and Shimano are not the only outfits that can put out decent product) and put any ring you want down to 24T. That will get you crazy low end you couldn't even match with a 36 tooth pie plate that weighs a ton in the rear.

The only reason people have any problems with gearing at all is either lack of awareness of options or insistence on using at least one component that is inappropriate.
banerjek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 02:49 PM   #30
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,965
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
cassettes with 13t smallest cogs would be a tremendous boon to many riders running 53/39 chain rings. So

how do we make this happen?
Shimano 6600 10 Speed "Junior" cassettes 13-25 are still available, works a treat w/ 6700 kit on my 53/39 Vitus .
I have one tucked away for the 52/39/30 triple going onto my Rando-ish build as well.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:05 PM   #31
cellery
Senior Member
 
cellery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Wouldn't it just be easier to put a smaller outside chainwheel on? They do make 48t, 46t, etc cranksets.
cellery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:06 PM   #32
zymphad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Bikes: Super Cheap gc3 approved Bike
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Shimano 6600 10 Speed "Junior" cassettes 13-25 are still available, works a treat w/ 6700 kit on my 53/39 Vitus .
I have one tucked away for the 52/39/30 triple going onto my Rando-ish build as well.

-Bandera
Nice option.

Also curious about providing more options like this since it seems spinning fast 90-120 is becoming the rage as some are pointing to the pros who do/did it. Lance/Wiggins/Froume being the top names for spinning fast on mountains or flats. Though they are the three big dopers, so eh, maybe bad examples.

How many people outside of UCI pros can spin 100 on 50/11?
zymphad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:18 PM   #33
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 20,636
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
Because that is what he has. What is so mysterious. Compacts are relatively recent items.

What is mysterious to me is why you think 53x13 is remotely equivalent to a 50x11 that is standard with 11s cassettes. Do the math.

SRAM, Shimano, and Campy do not make road bike gear ratios that fit many cyclist's needs. There is not a single 11s cassette on the market that meets my needs in conjunction with my compact crank. I never need the 11 or 12 cog and a couple hundred miles into a long ride, something more than 28 teeth might be nice on a 16% gradient.

13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 25, 28, 32 would be be better overall for many riders.
That's what I'm talkin' about. Someone gets it.
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:21 PM   #34
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 20,636
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
Sure, but triples also make loads of sense for many riders but not enough people are interested in buying them.

It's easy to get any gear ratio you want with existing cassettes -- that's what different ring sizes are for. 34/32 doesn't give you enough low end and not willing to get a triple? No problem, get a variable bolt crank (SRAM, Campy, and Shimano are not the only outfits that can put out decent product) and put any ring you want down to 24T. That will get you crazy low end you couldn't even match with a 36 tooth pie plate that weighs a ton in the rear.

The only reason people have any problems with gearing at all is either lack of awareness of options or insistence on using at least one component that is inappropriate.
The 53/39 spread is more attractive to me than 50/34. As for a triple, I have no use for more rings up front. Hey, everybody has preferences, yours, mine, ours. I'm glad you like triples. I'm just asking for mine (and lots of other folks') to be addressed by the equipment suppliers.
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:22 PM   #35
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 20,636
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellery View Post
Wouldn't it just be easier to put a smaller outside chainwheel on? They do make 48t, 46t, etc cranksets.
IMO the spread between 53 and 39 is just about ideal, given the right cassette of course.
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:23 PM   #36
zymphad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Bikes: Super Cheap gc3 approved Bike
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
That's what I'm talkin' about. Someone gets it.
200 miles at 16% gradient? Pass.
zymphad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:39 PM   #37
Drew Eckhardt
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Bikes:
Posts: 5,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellery View Post
Wouldn't it just be easier to put a smaller outside chainwheel on? They do make 48t, 46t, etc cranksets.
Switching the big ring to a 48, 46, etc. won't get you back the 18 or 16 cog which was omitted to make room for the 12 on the small end.
Drew Eckhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 03:45 PM   #38
Elvo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 3,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Shimano CS-6600 Wide 10 Speed Cassette - Normal Shipping Ground
Elvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:01 PM   #39
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,965
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
it seems spinning fast 90-120 is becoming the rage
It's been the rage my whole cycling career as developing a powerful high cadence pedaling style with grunt on demand was what our coaches emphasized 40 years ago. Modern wide-range gearing gives tight ratios for efficiency and low range for climbing, it was one or the other "back when". 13T top cogs w/ 53 or 52 big-rings still get it for me, and give nice tight steps below, but I'm just an elderly fellow plootering about.....

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:05 PM   #40
gc3 
Falls Downalot
 
gc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DC
Bikes: Now I Got Two
Posts: 3,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As in all things...money talks & bullsh*t walks. It's a marketplace, what is desired is what gets provided.
__________________
"I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."
"I understand. I just don't care"
"I don't give a f*ck" if they remember me at all" (F. Zappa)
gc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:09 PM   #41
zymphad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Bikes: Super Cheap gc3 approved Bike
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
As in all things...money talks & bullsh*t walks. It's a marketplace, what is desired is what gets provided.
If money talks and the only options are 11-28/12-25 etc, then what does customer do, not buy anything?
zymphad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:12 PM   #42
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,965
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
As in all things...money talks & bullsh*t walks. It's a marketplace, what is desired is what gets provided.

It's a fashion driven industry, fantasy gearing for the 11 cog 60RPM crowd at Starbucks.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:16 PM   #43
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
Posts: 33,867
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
I was just about to post this. As the dad of a new junior racer, I have scoped out all the junior cassettes.
caloso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:17 PM   #44
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid
Posts: 11,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
The 53/39 spread is more attractive to me than 50/34. As for a triple, I have no use for more rings up front. Hey, everybody has preferences, yours, mine, ours. I'm glad you like triples. I'm just asking for mine (and lots of other folks') to be addressed by the equipment suppliers.
I like triples, but I don't actually use them except on my 'bents. I agree that the 50/34 spread is wide and consider that a climbing setup -- if you're not on long really steep climbs or in gale force winds, the 34 is ridiculous.

But if you need the type of gearing that you'd get with a smaller 13T, all you need to do is get the rings that functionally move everything down. 48 and 46T big rings make a lot of sense for many people, and you can run them with very tight gear ratios that overlap.

One thing I don't understand is why people constantly worry about their big ring not being big enough. Except for people who race and put out massive power, this is a total nonissue. Even with 46T, spinout is around 40mph. When you get to speeds like that, it's all about aero and typically a hill...

The reality is that most people don't fool with their gearing. They buy what they see others using that looks cool. I totally get the idea that it would be nice to have suppliers make what people want -- if I had my way, I'd have them make the good stuff in 9 speed. Less finicky, better in slop, better master link options, and cheaper.
banerjek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:20 PM   #45
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 20,636
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
As in all things...money talks & bullsh*t walks. It's a marketplace, what is desired is what gets provided.
Of course you're right, but it is more and more common for the supplier to predetermine what the consumer will want by limiting the choices. Self-fulfilling prophecy. "Aha! See, I told you they want 11t and 12t cassettes," he says. He forgets to mention that is all that was offered.
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:23 PM   #46
Leinster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Switching the big ring to a 48, 46, etc. won't get you back the 18 or 16 cog which was omitted to make room for the 12 on the small end.
52x16 is right in between the 14 and 15 on both a 46 and 48. Both of which you will have. Switching out the 12 is sacrificing top end to gain options in the middle, which is exactly what happens either way.
Leinster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:37 PM   #47
gc3 
Falls Downalot
 
gc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DC
Bikes: Now I Got Two
Posts: 3,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Of course you're right, but it is more and more common for the supplier to predetermine what the consumer will want by limiting the choices. Self-fulfilling prophecy. "Aha! See, I told you they want 11t and 12t cassettes," he says. He forgets to mention that is all that was offered.
not disagreeing the supplier influences demand in the ways that best serve their revenue-inducing purpose, but hey, what's good for him is good for the majority of us....

Quote:
Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
If money talks and the only options are 11-28/12-25 etc, then what does customer do, not buy anything?
or build your own...or find a boutique supplier that will cater and price to the smaller market....or start a campaign such as inferred by this thread...
__________________
"I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."
"I understand. I just don't care"
"I don't give a f*ck" if they remember me at all" (F. Zappa)
gc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:38 PM   #48
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 20,636
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
52x16 is right in between the 14 and 15 on both a 46 and 48. Both of which you will have. Switching out the 12 is sacrificing top end to gain options in the middle, which is exactly what happens either way.
Yes, either way. Why is the change at the crank better than the easier and cheaper change at the cassette?
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:41 PM   #49
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Posts: 20,636
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
not disagreeing the supplier influences demand in the ways that best serve their revenue-inducing purpose, but hey, what's good for him is good for the majority of us....



or build your own...or find a boutique supplier that will cater and price to the smaller market....or start a campaign such as inferred by this thread...
Oh sh*t, did I just start a campaign? That is heavy duty (as we used to say back in the day). I was just trolling.
__________________
Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-14, 04:42 PM   #50
gc3 
Falls Downalot
 
gc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DC
Bikes: Now I Got Two
Posts: 3,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Oh sh*t, did I just start a campaign? That is heavy duty (as we used to say back in the day).
how could you not? it's in your sig...
__________________
"I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."
"I understand. I just don't care"
"I don't give a f*ck" if they remember me at all" (F. Zappa)
gc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:02 AM.