BoSoxYacht

The crankset looks familiar



New Campagnolo Mechanical Groups - First Look | Cyclingnews.com

Homebrew01

Ugghh. Nicest cranks to ugliest in 1 year.

chaadster

+1, and which was the only advantage they had over Shimano in my book, though I do slightly prefer the shifters, too.

Campag4life

So what do we have here? What we have is plagerism at its finest. What has Campy copied:

1. Shimano's 4 arm crank
2. Shimano's universal spider for compact and full size rings
3. Shimano's Front Derailleur tall lever arm for reduced effort for front shifting
4. Shimano's Front Derailleur trim function which prevents over shifting and shifts to X-chained position from large to small ring.


So what didn't Campy improve? Their shifter ergos. Campy's shifter ergos are ready for refreshing and Campy hasn't touched them which is disappointing because they aren't perfect.

- DA 9000 shifters have a blunter, friendly nub for riding with palm on the numb for aero position...versus a sharp pointy tall nub which has never looked nice either.
- DA 9000 shifter hoods are a bit longer for larger hands
- DA 9000 shifters have a friendlier transition to the handlebar from the hoods versus a bump on Campy hoods which feels like a pebble in your shoe.
- DA 9000 levers are adjustable for position relative to the handlebar based upon finger length.

The Campy shifter button versus brake lever shift will never go away but my observation is:

The thumb button gets in the way for a second hand position on the hoods closer to the bar
You don't have to move your hand to shift either up or down with DA 9000.
You can get more leverage with the brake lever shifter versus shifting the smaller lever of Campy. Shifting up the cassette or the front chainrings requires the most leverage and this is easier by shifting the entire brake lever because it is bigger
I prefer the new brake lever shape of DA 9000 to Campy's thinner brake lever for security.

My personal view is Shimano went from a position of behind to in front of Campy with DA 9000/Ultegra 6800. Throw new Sram 22 in the mix and now things are quite interesting. To me Campy really has to watch their step because its a very different world now. Campy OverTorque cranks to me are a waste of money with their press fit, special tools for removal and large price tag. Give me DA 9000 or Rotor 3D+ cranks.

Yes the new 4 arm Campy crank is much uglier than the prettiest crank on the market that they owned previously.

Homebrew01

^^ Time for a name change to "Shimano4Life" ??

Blatant copying of Shimano doesn't do them any favors

Campag4life

Actually wrong on both fronts. The name thing is nebulous and Campy's clear copy of Shimano is the best they could do short of inventing something better than what Shimano did when they completely redesigned their mechanical groupsets which moved them to the head of the class. I don't have any allegiance to any manufacturer and buy the best mousetrap I can find. Also keep in mind they copy from one another. This has been happening in design from the beginning of time. Copying is much more prevalent than invention.
Further as unique and improved as Shimano's clever new trim function is which blows Campy's current high effort and clumsy trim function out of the water, many criticize Shimano for not copying Sram's 0 trim yaw front derailleur which is very clever indeed.

Point is, its a race for the top in value and function and we as bike enthusiasts are the beneficiary. I will also say it is a huge disappointment if Campy doesn't modify their Ultrashift ergo's for 2015. I want to spend some time on Force or Red 22 to say if it is better than new Shimano mechanical but from my vantage point now, Campy is either in second or possibly third...will see. I didn't even mention Shimano brakes which are amazing compared to Campy. My opinion is three years ago Campy was the king in mechanical groupset function and ergos because the other manufacturers were so flawed.

Homebrew01

What is the advantage of the new crank design, that required them to copy the Shimano 4 arm spider ? ?

kansukee

I love the look of my 2013 R11 EPS group and I see no reason to "upgrade" to this. Let's hope they come to their senses in 2016 and build something that's actually new, improved and *original*.

Campag4life

Same if not improved stiffness with lower weight. Will it matter in the grand scheme? Undetectable. Is it directionally correct? Probably. Big plus is the universal spider that can accommodate different BCD's...same crank for compact or full size. Downside? Oh yeah. Proprietary chain rings. Campy is no novice at that btw...had their outliar single bolt BCD at 112mm for the compact. But before this could be worked around with a dremmel to not pay Campy prices for chain rings.

My personal view is Campy is on a slippery slope and have to be careful about pricing themselves out. There is still very good value in Campy 11s if you buy the current stuff overseas...say Chorus 11s is competitively priced. But both Shimano and Sram have really stepped up their game and to me Campy's OT crank is a big disappointment and Ultegra 6800 knocks the ball out of the park and Force 22 maybe right in there. Centaur? Athena? I don't think so. Currently Campy 11s will no doubt trickle down...perhaps for 2015. Why? Because it has to to compete with the other guys with their more evolved front derailleurs and improved shifters and brakes.
What Shimano did with Ultegra 6800 is really a watershed. I can picture how the engineering meetings went. No doubt wasn't pretty after their miserable fail with Ultegra 6700/DA 7900. As a result they took every aspect and redesigned it. This is what make technical industry so difficult. Its easy to copy or work around patents and the next guy always has a leg up by reverse engineering and improving the status quo. A race to the top.

Lazyass

[h=1]Prototype Campagnolo group spotted at Giro d'Italia[/h]https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/prototype-campagnolo-group-spotted-at-giro-ditalia-41000/

Campag4life

2015 is Campy's next design iteration. Some would say over due but they were sitting pretty until recently. There will be no coming to any senses in 2016. All the groupsets are now so good, its hard to find technical innovation. 2016 will likely only be a minor tweak to the change coming in 2015.

I will say that the new DA 9000 is by far the most technically advanced derailleur I have ever set up. The elephant in the room for front derailleur is flex during cable tension and Shimano addresses that with a pin that protrudes off the back of the derailleur and braces against the seat post. Further they went to incredible detail with their dual position cable pinch bolt to address cable position as it protrudes from the base of the BB for different bikes. Their long lever design to lower shift effort is better than anything out there. Who needs electricity when actuation is so easy, positive and tactile.

Campag4life

The improved chain wrap with offset cage is an interesting design innovation for Campy's new rear derailleur.

Leinster

Where is Chorus competitively priced? Everywhere I look a Chorus group bottoms out at about $1300, compared to $800 for (mechanical) Ultegra. That includes Wiggle etc. Even Athena costs more than the Ultegra. If there's somewhere to get Chorus for close to Ultegra prices, I'd love to hear about it.

Campag4life

First, you need to identify what you mean by a groupset...which components are you considering and then perform a price comparison.
To your point, I do believe Chorus 11s will be more expensive even up...crank cost is the biggest difference...but who wants to ride with an Ultegra crank?

Leinster

Well the "traditional" 9pc group that I'm seeing quoted at the prices above usually consists of brifters, derailleurs, brakes, crank, BB, cassette, chain.

I see your point on the crank price difference, and every time I look at the Ultegra/DA 4-leg crank I'm reminded of an Alien facehugger, but with Campy following them down that design rabbit hole, maybe I'll just stick with my FSA.

Campag4life

And as to who led the charge down the 4 arm crank...likely Shimano took the lead, closely followed by FSA...see below which looks a lot like the new Campy 4 arm only tack on a few hundred for Campy OT.

To me the crank of choice today is DA...and that will include 2015. If you want to run a DA 9000 crank and you have a BB/PF30 frame and can't live with spacers which work just fine with BB30 bearings...then pony up for a Praxis BB which is drop in.

No way would I deal with Campy OverTorque with their goofy tools and press fit to the spindle. Many cranks in line for me before then. I am a fan of Campy UT in fact and rumor is Campy is going to use the hirth joint on their new 2015 cranks...or some of them. Will see what they come up with but if its anything like OverTorque or PowerTorque...no thanks. To me having played with a few different cranks on friends bikes is....Shimano's double pinch bolt left crank arm is the best design out there. Surprising that Shimano hasn't released a BB/PF30 specific crank but their external bearing cranks can be easily adapted...a number of options.

kansukee

Then when the time comes, I may upgrade everything *but the cranks. Sorry but the new ones are hideous.

AndyK 

Those cranks are just UGLY! The rest of the group is pretty sweet looking though.

2015 group, with 2014 cranks maybe?

Campag4life

I'm currently running a Campy carbon UT 10s compact crank with DA 9000....so its all good. It shifts very well btw.

AndyK 

So all DA9000 - except for the Campy crank? Why not go all the way to the dark side?

Campag4life

I am running an 6800 Ultegra rear derailleur...short cage + 28-11 Ultegra cassette + Ultegra chain. A great question and one I have considered about the crank. Truth is my current Campy UT crank has been flawless and my bike is English threaded. By the time I replace this frameset, it is possible that tech will have even moved beyond BB30/PF30 and derivatives and would prefer to go with the next gen. I really see no benefit to go with DA 9000 crank as good as it is. To me Campy UT is functional art. Buying now I would get DA 9000. I also have Ultegra 6800 brakes and even if switching back to Campy or maybe even Sram 22, don't think I would swap out these brakes because they are so good.

I am going to ride this set up for while. Unknown how long I will keep it. I won't be going to Campy 2015 driveline...I know that because Campy isn't changing its shifters...largely why I moved away from it. I want to try Sram 22 at some point.

Drew Eckhardt 

IMHO the contemporary carbon fiber finish isn't enough to offset the dead octopus shape.

coppercook62

Agree

jan nikolajsen 

Not a pretty crank. Clearly inspired by DA9000, but esthetically a touch better looking. IMO.

vwchad

Interesting. I'll stick with my current Chorus UT, thank you very much.