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  1. #26
    Beer >> Sanity bikerjp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acchang View Post
    On the hills though, my cadence naturally drops to 80 rpm and lower. I don’t like how my muscles feel at a lower rpm, it’s like I’m doing something bad to my knees. I also feel like I don’t have enough power at that low rpm, things are a struggle.

    So I downshift and get my rpms back. But then my heart rate drops into the 110s, which means I’m not working that hard, and I start falling behind again.
    This doesn't make sense - unless your "hill" is 1-2% gradient and you are just slacking.

    If your cadence drops too low and downshifting results in it being "too easy" (can a hill ever be easy?) then don't shift. Just pedal harder and keep a higher cadence in the higher gear. Your heart rate will certainly go up.
    Climbs like a stone, descends like two...

  2. #27
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    Just curious what kind of pace are you running and what is your HR while running? In my mind a 17mph group ride assuming your are drafting should not be that tough for somebody in reasonably good health. I know when I mostly just ran and cycled maybe 1-2 times a week I had a tough time getting my HR elevated. My aerobic conditioning was far better developed and my cycling muscles were really lacking. After I started cycling 3-4 days a week (100-150 mpw) for a few months I was able to elevate my HR on the bike and my average speed increased 1-2 mph.

  3. #28
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    Thanks for your interest -- I've been running long runs of 7 to 11 miles at a 7:45-ish pace. My HR runs between 140 and 150. I rode a solo 40-miler this weekend, since most of the members had other commitments, and tried to push the pace a little, always trying to keep the HR at 130 or higher.

    I'd often have to get off the seat though to get my HR up on inclines. I just couldn't find the muscles to stay seated and raise my HR that much.

    I didn't succeed all the time, but that helped me go a little faster than usual. I think it is the fact that I'm holding back, but you tell me -- is a 7:45 pace good enough for a 17mph ride pace? My PR for the 5K is about 21:00 and for the half, it's about 1:40.

  4. #29
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acchang View Post
    Thanks for your interest -- I've been running long runs of 7 to 11 miles at a 7:45-ish pace. My HR runs between 140 and 150. I rode a solo 40-miler this weekend, since most of the members had other commitments, and tried to push the pace a little, always trying to keep the HR at 130 or higher.

    I'd often have to get off the seat though to get my HR up on inclines. I just couldn't find the muscles to stay seated and raise my HR that much.

    I didn't succeed all the time, but that helped me go a little faster than usual. I think it is the fact that I'm holding back, but you tell me -- is a 7:45 pace good enough for a 17mph ride pace? My PR for the 5K is about 21:00 and for the half, it's about 1:40.
    it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but relatively speaking 7:45 mile pace running puts you higher up the running food chain, than 17mph average riding.

    My personal example, If I went out right now and ran one mile, it would be a struggle go much under 7:45, but I can hang, even pull, on group rides averaging 25mph.

    To me 21 minute 5k makes you a pretty strong age group runner. 17mph group ride makes you a middling B group club rider.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  5. #30
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    I chuckled when I read your reply. Thanks for the compliment!

    Yes, this has been my experience, looking at my race results from triathlons. I know I'm definitely higher up in the pack during the run, and at about 50% or lower in the bike leg. I have more experience running. Body type might play a role too.

    Definitely, a lot of it is in the brain. I'm a pretty skittish biker, so even if I have the engine, I'm reluctant to drain the tank for fear of losing control of the vehicle.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Gus90's Avatar
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    What works for me is to have that song stuck in my head from the movie Finding Nemo. Just keep spinning, just keep spinning (well it's swimming, but I took artistic license)

    Last edited by Gus90; 06-30-14 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #32
    Push harder, suck less AScoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acchang View Post
    I don't ride as much as the other guys, nor as much as I should. I've been spending most of my time running.
    Make these statements untrue.

  8. #33
    Senior Member datlas's Avatar
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    Agree comparing run pace to cycling pace is apples and oranges.

    I also agree that your run pace puts you at an "A" runner and your cycling pace puts you at a "B" cyclist.

    For comparison purposes, last year I did an olympic tri and my run pace was roughly 8 minutes/mile, while my bike was about 20.5MPH (and that's on a road bike, no aero bars etc.), I consider myself an A- cyclist but a B+ runner for my age (49).

    Again run fitness and bike fitness do not always correlate, but maybe that gives you some ideas.

    Work on your cycling, including your fit, and you have a good chance to get a lot faster on the bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by RUOkie View Post
    never underestimate the idiocy of BF.

  9. #34
    blah blah blah milkbaby's Avatar
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    How much of it is psychological? Your HR shouldn't be dropping on a climb, that means you're easing off the gas.

  10. #35
    Senior Member fstshrk's Avatar
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    Did you get a bike fit? I am wondering if your saddle is too low and you can't put power down.
    Help me cure canine cancer
    http://www.wearethecure.org/friends/skipper

  11. #36
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    Squatting and deaf lifts have helped me a lot, posture wise. I've got the back strength to just sit in the drops for an hour or so, and feel fine. I'm not sure how much it's helped my pedaling, but it's made me a lot more comfortable. My knees do hurt a bit less, a benefit somebody else mentioned.

    Sadly, I must confirm other people's posts about running fitness not being directly transferable to the bike. When I was in HS and running low 16 5K's, my dad-literally 100 lbs overweight and 20 years from his cat 1 bike days-could always beat me handily on anything under 30 minutes.

    In hindsight, he was cheating by ensuring I was on a mtb vs his old road bike, but nonetheless-I still lost.

  12. #37
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    My PRs were almost exactly the same when I was mostly running. My Avg. speed for a 1 hour solo ride was around 17mph. When I would ride it was as though my muscles were working almost as hard as they could but my HR was saying "come on now I am ready to do some work here". It seemed I couldn't get my HR up unless it was up a long hill.

    The 3 workouts which helped me get over the hump were 1)I would ride solo as hard as I could shooting for a 1 hour average speed of 20MPH. 2) Cadence drills where for 3-5 minutes I would try to hold a cadence of 110 or more. 3) Ran for an hour to get my HR up then cycled for an hour it seemed to help me get to know how a higher HR on the bike felt. Not sure how much #3 helped but it is what I did. I also went to cycling 3-4 days a week. For me it was also easier to ride solo since in a paceline it's too easy to just hang out and not push yourself.

  13. #38
    Senior Member link0's Avatar
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    OP, it sounds like you are keeping up on the flats only due to drafting. On uphills, the speed is far slower, so drafting helps little. You just need to get stronger.

  14. #39
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    It sounds like you to do some high intensity interval training. Try a 45-60 minutes spin class 2-3x per week and ride on weekends or you could try the following the training program by Chris Carmichael titled "The Time Crunched Cyclist".

  15. #40
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    Thanks everyone for helping me get to the bottom of this! Sadly, I will have to revisit this thread in December, because I'm concentrating on my running this summer (and to supplement that, flexibility, strength and core training and form drills.) Cycling and swimming will have to stay at or near maintenance levels for the time being.

    I hope by then I will have put your suggestions to work!

  16. #41
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    Ride ride ride and ride!

    OP - How many miles do you ride each year? Going from 15mph average pace (average, beginner pace) towards 18-20mph (serious hobby cyclist) is a big step up. There are no shortcuts but thousands and thousands miles of training.

    Keep riding and it will just happen.

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