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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by macjager View Post
    Canyon bikes in Germany uses only the web (direct) for sales, and they seem quite successful (and are sponsors on the UCI tour - Movistar and Katusha). Unfortunately they do not have a dealer/distributor network set up on North America; I imagine that their business model for repair/warranty work (shipping to the factory) would make the costs too prohibitive for the buyer. One of the guys I ride with (currently l live in Hungary) bought one (very experienced rider) is quite happy with it, purchased with high end components and ended up less expensive than had he bought a Trek or Specialized with the same components.
    These bikes do look really nice. I hope they're as nice as they look.
    - Dan \m/

  2. #27
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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  3. #28
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    "if I recall correctly the guy who came to our club lives locally (in Ventura County) and his wife is Chinese and may be from Hong Kong. Look at the link I listed above and check the file for Moorpark Culprit Demo Day.

    you are right that they need to cut the shipping costs. Also, I agree with you in that I wouldn't spend any money on a bike unless I got a chance to ride it and feel it, especially an unknown bike from an unknown company.

    The one thing that these bikes have going, besides price, is the fact that you can pick your own color scheme.

    Good luck"

    HI Guys, my name is Joshua Colp. I am the owner of Culprit with my Taiwanese wife (not Chinese). I am originally from Ventura and transplanted to Taiwan for 10 years now.

    Our brand is actually very competively priced for product spec and value. All our carbon bikes are painted to order. Please compare another paint to order bike with similar pricing and you will find none. Also, all our bikes come with a high spec. Yes, you can buy another local brand, but look at the wheels, cockpit, etc you get for the price. We offer 2800 retail reynolds wheels for example on our 5500 Croz blade Sram red 22. Red 22 alone cost another 2000. So we throw in our frame set for roughly 700 more...

    The reason for the high shipping is we are based in Taiwan, it is how we can keep our painting costs down. To paint in the US will cost much more than our Taiwan painting costs and the paint quality here is top notch. our paint factory paints frames that sell for 5000 from big brands for frame set only. Also our company overhead is lower and we have hands on experience and QC with EVERY bike this way we have full control and oversee the manufacturing process first hand.

    We do have good customer service via email and phone calls. Yes, you cannot test ride a bike, but to be fair. if you want to buy a new bike in your local shop. do they really let you ride it outside the shop? and will a 20 minute spin on a trainer give you the full effects of a bike. In the end, any purchase comes from confidence in the product from reviews or word of mouth.

    Culprit is 3 years old. I have 10 years in the industry in Taiwan backing my knowledge. Do give our brand a chance. The reason we have no shops is because there is no margin for them. We have tried, but they do not make enough since we don't have huge mark ups like the big brands do. Go check spec/price against the big brands and Culprit pricing is much better.

    Not to mention, every carbon frame is made with only the best Carbon. Most brands spec down the carbon with price point. so yes we are comparable to the top Giant Carbon frame set, not their entry level. All our frame sets come with a culprit jersey, carbon bottle cage, water bottle and a real torque wrench. As well as our painting options included. Complete bikes also get a bib included.

    Any questions about the brand, please ask. Thanks

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by culpritbicycles
    Not to mention, every carbon frame is made with only the best Carbon. Most brands spec down the carbon with price point. so yes we are comparable to the top Giant Carbon frame set, not their entry level. All our frame sets come with a culprit jersey, carbon bottle cage, water bottle and a real torque wrench. As well as our painting options included. Complete bikes also get a bib included.
    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    I'm not going to dispute the pricing of your complete bikes, but I have a point to raise with regard to framesets. I was in the market for an aero frameset until recently and I was considering your Croz Blade as one option.

    To me, custom paint is not worth much (if anything), road disc compatibility is also of dubious value. Freebies are interesting but not huge. In the end, the choice was down to your frame for $1895+shipping, vs. previous year Giant Propel Advanced for $1800 shipped. (MSRP is 2300, but I found a store within a 2 hour drive that offered the frameset for 1800.) (And the runner-up was Felt AR1, the cheapest I could find locally was $2375.) I went with a Giant.

    If your contention is that your margins are down to the rock bottom and your framesets are comparable to Giant's top of the line offerings, this really needs to be spelled out way up top on the web site and backed up with numerical evidence, rather than being hidden in the last paragraph of a comment in a bike forum. In particular, a credible demonstration that Croz Blade is closer to Giant Propel Advanced SL rather than to Giant Propel Advanced in terms of weight (assuming this is the case) would greatly enhance the apparent value of the frameset in the eyes of prospective buyers.
    Last edited by hamster; 10-26-14 at 03:36 AM.

  5. #30
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    Hamster

    Thanks, Sorry for not joining earlier. I was doing a google search and found this forum mentioning our products.

    To address the issues raised.

    1. The reason for custom paint for us is 2 fold.
    a. We let our customers have truly unique bikes. Some may no desire this and that is their choice, but our typical customers love that they are getting a bike cheaper than main brands but with their colour options
    b. we are a young brand, if we over project for the year and paint a paint scheme, if we do not sell out, we have to do steep discounts on the same frame but a new paint scheme the next year. so by doing custom paint, we have raw stock which helps us keep our overhead down. Remember, every big brand had a start somewhere small.

    about road disc. 90 % of our buys are for road disc set up. The beauty is you are getting a bike that is ready for the future which will become road disc across the board in the future. The designs by shimano have raised the bar and braking is better than ever before. This may not be a feature you want now, but it is a unique aspect of our design that separates us from our competitors. Pricing of frame set also included the disc brakes, which alone retail for 90 USD each, so 180 a set
    TRP

    In respect to comparisons of my frame to others. Sorry, I do not post other brands on my site and attack other brands. I do not know many brands who start out by saying, we are equal to .... and this brand.... If you look at our frame info, it talks about materials and weights. Giant does not publish any weights, they say, come by our store to find out.
    So, Can I ask, what did your frame weigh in at? The main goal of Giant offering different prices is an improvement in carbon layup which in the end affects the frame outcome. Paint jobs also affect weight a lot. So depending on how they paint it, weight will vary. sizes also affect weight. from our 46 frame to 58 frame, raw finish is only 103 grams difference.

    Can I ask. if you were interested in our bike, Why did you not email us. Our website has a contact us question. I would have happily filled in all your questions and explained why our bikes are priced as they are , etc. The reason I missed your sale was because you never took the time to ask questions you had to the people who can answer them, the designer directly.

    Thanks for your input and it has been noted and we will see how we can use this info in our future website updates

    I am glad you found the right bike for you. At the end of the day, Culprit just wants to see more people riding. If our bike thats great, if another, thats also ok, We just want to share the love of cycling

    Joshua

  6. #31
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    The explanation for the exorbitant shipping charge doesn't make sense.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
    The explanation for the exorbitant shipping charge doesn't make sense.
    Hi

    The shipping fee is about 160 for a frame set and about 300 for a complete bike. Bikes are shipped from Taiwan.

    If you want a point of reference for shipping fees, please call ship bikes direct or look at Canyon website and ship international

    Canyons price from Germany to Taiwan is
    INCLUDING DELIVERY AND PACKAGING 396,48 US$ from their website on a road bike

    We shipped a bike from Taiwan to Germany for just over 300.

    Our shipping rates are discounted from UPS or TNT. We do not profit from any of our shipping costs and pass that cost directly onto our customers as our purchase invoice confirmation explains. Our website calculations are not as low as us calling UPS directly so if someone buys online we typically refund the difference in cash or we ask them to order from us by email to get the best shipping rates.

    We are more than happy to show a scanned document of the shipping fee we are charged.

    I hope this explains why our shipping fee is around 300 USD. If you ship via UPS or TNT, you can check the rate

    Our complete bike box size is 119*26*75cm and weigh about 13 kg packed

    Shipped from Changhua, Taiwan.

    Thanks

    Joshua

  8. #33
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    I've just checked web sites of two well known Chinese carbon wheel manufacturers (both offer frames as well). For a frameset, they quote shipping costs from mainland China to USA of $76 and $92. I think they use EMS.

    For a Croz Blade frameset, Culprit web site calculates the minimum shipping rate of $291.

    Unless shipping from Taiwan is so much more expensive than shipping from mainland China, there's substantial room for improvement.

    Also, just from marketing / customer experience point of view, since you end up charging $300 shipping fee to pretty much every customer, I think it would be better to absorb that fee into the retail price of the product. Instead of listing a frameset for $1800 and then hitting the customer with what's perceived as a large fine-print hidden fee just before checkout, make it $2100, clearly advertised with free shipping.

    BTW, the "buy now" link at Culprit Croz Blade - Frameset is broken. (It points to /products/culprit-croz-blade, and it should point to /products/culprit-croz-blade-frameset.)

  9. #34
    Senior Member TexMac's Avatar
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    I saw it on slow twitch website and they had a guy ride it for miles and gave pretty good reviews. I like the yellow color and road/aero mix.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamster View Post
    I've just checked web sites of two well known Chinese carbon wheel manufacturers (both offer frames as well). For a frameset, they quote shipping costs from mainland China to USA of $76 and $92. I think they use EMS.

    For a Croz Blade frameset, Culprit web site calculates the minimum shipping rate of $291.

    Unless shipping from Taiwan is so much more expensive than shipping from mainland China, there's substantial room for improvement.

    Also, just from marketing / customer experience point of view, since you end up charging $300 shipping fee to pretty much every customer, I think it would be better to absorb that fee into the retail price of the product. Instead of listing a frameset for $1800 and then hitting the customer with what's perceived as a large fine-print hidden fee just before checkout, make it $2100, clearly advertised with free shipping.

    BTW, the "buy now" link at Culprit Croz Blade - Frameset is broken. (It points to /products/culprit-croz-blade, and it should point to /products/culprit-croz-blade-frameset.)
    Thanks for the response and for the info about the broken link on our site, I will get that fixed asap.

    About back and forth, I do no wish to engage in argument/defense on things I cannot change. So this is my last response in that fashion. If readers desire to ask about our products, design, etc, I am more than happy to reply.

    About shipping. YES, things do cost more from Taiwan. I just confirmed shipping costs and box size from Alibaba on a dengfu frame and the EMS was 65 USD with a 5-15 day delivery schedule. I called EMS in Taiwan today and they offered that same box size for 185 USD and discounted price of 10% off if we deposit money and sign an account with them. The problem is.... EMS cannot ship complete bike boxes, so our use of EMS is limited as we mostly sell complete bikes and our pricing is better from UPS and MUCH faster, 3-5 days delivery typically.

    If there was a cheaper shipping method I would be using it. China and Taiwan are not the same so please do not assume pricing is identical.

    Also, please do not compare Culprit with a china factory direct. I buy all my products made in Taiwan and I do my QC in person and EVERY factory is sloppy. I have to check every product one by one and often inform them to make corrections or point out imperfections I cannot accept. Knowing QC is better in Taiwan than in China, I really doubt the care and consideration from a China factory direct will have the QC brands have. All the big brands do QC in the factories before they are shipped. I live in Taiwan still as I do the QC myself and each bike gets a thorough inspection before ever being released from Culprit.

    I don't think any company that is building a brand desires to be compared to Dengfu, or other Factory direct brands. Culprit offers a 3 year crash replacement policy. 5 year manufacturer defect. No factory offers more than 2-3 years. So that implies the brands take responsibility beyond the factory warranty.

    About the shipping calculator on our site, that is from UPS with our account info, but for some reason, it isn't as good a rate as us calling them directly and getting a quotation per shipment. As you suggested about setting the rate as one rate. Unfortunately. that isn't a wise decision. Canyon doesn't do that for good reason, not every country is the same rate. We shipped a junior one, our smallest complete bike box to United Arab Emirates and it costs 400, where that same bike shipping to the USA is only 160. So, Since we ship globally, we must calculate shipping per bike as each location is different. Even in America, more rural locations costs more vrs big cities.

    I do appreciate the insight and will improve the visibility of the shipping cost before check out, but I still challenge you to find a paint to order brand for anywhere near similar pricing. This does not include factory direct china because that is not really a brand. I know you do not wish for the painting aspect, but even without, you saw my pricing is still very competitive.. Complete bike pricing, we are actually better priced than Giants ADvanced pro Ultegra Di2 bike which is 5850. Our Croz Blade one bike Arsenal is also 5850 including a 3rd carbon rear wheel, both brake options, rim and disc shipped with bike, blktec aero bars and di2 bar end shifters.

    Thanks

    Joshua

  11. #36
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamster View Post
    Unless shipping from Taiwan is so much more expensive than shipping from mainland China, there's substantial room for improvement.
    It is.

    Those prices jive with what we see as well. That's one of the reasons we don't sell frames or built wheels. The shipping costs kill it for us.
    BLOG of BOB: Old Guy Racer
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    It is.

    Those prices jive with what we see as well. That's one of the reasons we don't sell frames or built wheels. The shipping costs kill it for us.
    Thank you for the confirmation. Shipping is higher from Taiwan.

  13. #38
    Senior Member OldsCOOL's Avatar
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    I guess if you have a bad ride, just blame the bike?
    Having a flat tire as part of the total cycling experience is highly overrated. Knowing how to fix one quickly is not.

    '85 Trek 460 road racer

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  14. #39
    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    I know a dad who bought a culprit junior for his kid for racing around here. Very nice bike (fit/finish). Unfortunately the "engine" was not up to the platform so I can't say much about how it performs.
    Last edited by delcrossv; 10-27-14 at 09:49 AM.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
    I know a dad who bought a culprit junior for his kid for racing around here. Very nice bike (fit/finish). Unfortunately the "engine" was not up to the platform so I can't say much about how it performs.
    Our Junior range has been raced in triathlons and Usa cycling events first place finishes. Regardless, this child has the right bike for him/her to enjoy the sport on a bike designed for them.

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