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  1. #1
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    Building a new bike and have some questions

    I'd like to first say please don't try to discourage me from building and tell me it will be cheaper to just go buy a new bike.

    I am going through with the build and am NOT going to sell it all and walk away.


    So hear it goes:

    $125 I bought a javelin sorento Frameset it was new old stock in box.

    $0 It came with carbon front fork and headset parts.

    $30 I bought SRAM 50/34T 110 BCD 172.5mm crankset

    $100 I bought xero-lite xr3 wheels (yes I know they are not very good but I have them already.

    ------------

    So first my questions,

    The crankset is described as being for a 10 speed rear... Does that mean it WILL NOT work with 6/7/8 rear cassette?

    I know it's a silly question but I have a tight budget and don't mind have low end gear.

    I do want something that is indexed for the cogs and friction for the chainrings.

    I was looking at the mega range cassette from shimano. It's $13 and had a very large last gear. I have to climb a step bridge on my ride and do want this because I weigh 210LBs and at most if I really pushed it I could loose 15lbs but it would still be a pain up those bridges.

    So if the 7 speed mega range is compatible with the crankset I bought how do I know which derailleur to buy front and rear? The front had a bracket sticking out and the rear has a tab.

    The rear derailleur for indexed 7 speed is $13 I think but which one do I buy?

    I also need to know what if anything I'm missing from headset to get the handlebar stem installed. I have seen spacers... Without reading this leads me to believe that the stem must be all the way down so it can push down on the bearing and therefore to go up you need spacers?

    Is that correct?

    Again please everyone don't just attack me. I don't care what original purpose of the frame is. I rode a built 55 and after my friend adjusted the bars and seat for me it was a very comfortable bike comparably to what I ride now.

    It will NEVER see action I have a road bike and cross bike for those reasons.

    This bike is just for cruising lakeshore drive for practicing so I don't have to ride my baby.


    Thanks guys

    Oh also can you tell if I left anything out besides bars, cables, shifters, brakes, and levers.

    IMG_0436.jpg
    Last edited by Murphwi; 07-01-14 at 01:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Megarange cogs are all freewheel I think. Won't go on your rear wheel.

    You can run 7/8/9 speed on a 10 sp. Road crank no problem.

    Stem/spacer should be about 3mm above steerer. Load bearings with top cap. If bars too low, need riser stem.

    Probably cheaper/easier to buy a $500 Fuji at Performance than to complete this build.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  3. #3
    Senior Member escarpment's Avatar
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    To answer your first question, yes you can, but its not going to be a perfect mate. the width of the teeth is narrower on your crank then what you would find on a 7/8 speed. the newer the components, the narrower the chain.

    Mega range will not work, and avoid 6/7 speed shifting bits unless its quality older stuff.

    Most shimano rear derailleurs are backwards compatible, i.e. a "9" speed RD will shift a 7 speed cog

    I would avoid buying new shimano 6/7/8 speed components, its bottom of the barrel product. Older 7/8 speed stuff is great.

    If you want to do friction and index though 7/8 speed isnt bad, but go with bar-end shifters, again go for a nicer rear derailleur. and you will need a clamp on front derailleur.

    think about buying a groupset as well

    could go on but wont....
    keep reading these forums, much knowledge to be had.

  4. #4
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    ......sell it all and walk away. Cheaper to just go buy a new bike.

    Not an attack at all, just I hate to see people get involved in stuff like this that they don't
    understand well enough to put together and make it work well. But I see it all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
    ......sell it all and walk away. Cheaper to just go buy a new bike.

    Not an attack at all, just I hate to see people get involved in stuff like this that they don't
    understand well enough to put together and make it work well. But I see it all the time.
    I understand what you are saying as I hear this kind of stuff all the time when looking through the forums.

    The thing is that if it is true that I can buy a better bike in finished condition for $500 then I would most def be able to just part the new bike out and sell it on ebay for a profit. If this where the case I think people would be doing it regularly.

    I get a lot of the parts for cheap, wait for details, don't need the most ultimate in parts, etc.

    Thanks for your recommendation but this is something I want to do. I want to know everything about the bike and I have a friend that knows enough to help me if I have questions or need tools.

    This isn't just about grabbing some bike that is decent. It is about me building a bike. I have several bikes from my LBS and now it is time for me to play around and learn.

    That is why I desperately asked for people to please not make this suggestion. It just takes up space in the thread.

    Again though I am very grateful for your input. But I do express dearly that I have made this decision. When it is all done I have only myself to blame for anything wrong and have the pride and knowledge that I know this bike inside and out.

    I did the math and even if I went with 9 speed components I am looking at $500 or less to round this bike out with the spare parts I have already from other bikes. That $500 is figured using Amazon prices and not eBay. Even though I will usually be buying used on ebay.

    Once i get the bike rolling I can swap parts in and out to my liking and sell the old part on ebay and only loose the 13% and shipping fees.

  6. #6
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    One question I have is regarding to the fork/headset installation. I am not certain if the forks have a built in race or not since the headset kit comes with a bottom race. The race won't go over a ridge that seems the exact size for the bearings.

    If it does have an integrated bering race then I have a problem because I think the frame and forks are touching and that I would maybe need a shim or something?

    Can someone tell me based off these pictures. IMG_0454.jpgIMG_0455.jpgIMG_0456.jpg

  7. #7
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    Based on review of your pictures, your fork does not have an integrated crown race (what you refer to as a bottom race). It is not uncommon for the fork crown race needs to be pressed on as it is an interference fit. It is also not uncommon for the fork crown to need to be milled to the correct dimension so that the crown race can be properly pressed on.

    This was more of an issue with cup/cone style headsets and less of a concern with cartridge bearing headsets. One thing some folks do is make a cut with dremel tool through one section of the crown race...this facilitates easier installation and removal. It will void any warranty but seems to work. Some manufacturers of cartridge bearing headsets have already done this to the crown race. In the case of cartridge bearing headsets the crown race acts more as a bushing to prevent contact wear of the fork crown than it acts as an integral component of the bearing system.

    -j

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenfieldja View Post
    Based on review of your pictures, your fork does not have an integrated crown race (what you refer to as a bottom race). It is not uncommon for the fork crown race needs to be pressed on as it is an interference fit. It is also not uncommon for the fork crown to need to be milled to the correct dimension so that the crown race can be properly pressed on.

    This was more of an issue with cup/cone style headsets and less of a concern with cartridge bearing headsets. One thing some folks do is make a cut with dremel tool through one section of the crown race...this facilitates easier installation and removal. It will void any warranty but seems to work. Some manufacturers of cartridge bearing headsets have already done this to the crown race. In the case of cartridge bearing headsets the crown race acts more as a bushing to prevent contact wear of the fork crown than it acts as an integral component of the bearing system.

    -j

    In the third picture that is the race with the bearing showing that the race does not slide down.

    If this is something that is supposed to be pressed on I don't mind going to a bike shop. The milling on the other hand... not cool.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphwi View Post
    In the third picture that is the race with the bearing showing that the race does not slide down.

    If this is something that is supposed to be pressed on I don't mind going to a bike shop. The milling on the other hand... not cool.
    Yes...I was referring to the first two pictures without the crown race present.

    If you do not have the proper tools to press the crown race on or the experience to do this without the proper tools, then it is best to leave it to a shop that knows what they are doing.

    A competent shop should be able to evaluate the fork crown and the fork crown race and deterimine if milling of the crown is necessary. It is not that big a deal and only takes a few minutes. Finding a shop that can do this competently is what might take you some time. Ask a lot of questions before any cutting is done.

    One other thing is a competent shop should also be able to advise you if the headset and the fork are compatible...there are two standards ISO and JIS and they are not easily interchangeble. One can change one way by milling the crown race to fit but interchanging the other way is not possible. Cant remember the dimensions of each standard off the top of my head but a search of Sheldon Brown's website will give you the info.

    -j

  10. #10
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphwi View Post
    I understand what you are saying as I hear this kind of stuff all the time when looking through the forums.

    The thing is that if it is true that I can buy a better bike in finished condition for $500 then I would most def be able to just part the new bike out and sell it on ebay for a profit. If this where the case I think people would be doing it regularly.

    (snip)

    Once i get the bike rolling I can swap parts in and out to my liking and sell the old part on ebay and only loose the 13% and shipping fees.
    You could probably tear down $500 bikes and sell 'em for $600 on eBay. How quickly can you tear down a bike, photograph all its parts, post auctions, pack and ship?

    You're probably looking at making $5 an hour on a good day.

    Building up bikes can be fun and rewarding but it's going to be tough. Expect to spend quite a bit on tools and buying second and third parts as you realize compatibility problems.

    My first ground-up build was an MTB, cost me about $350 with some killer deals, not including tool purchases. The moment it was done I coulda sold it on CL for $200 if I was really patient

    As another poster said, you could look at getting a components group, to ease compatibility. Another good way to go is to get a donor bike off of craigslist. Look for same FD interface and brake reach. You'll quite often still have to get a seatpost to fit your frame but everything else should work together.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  11. #11
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    Just get this one for $469:

    GT Bikes GTR Series 4 Women's Bike 2013 > Complete Bikes > Road Bikes | Jenson USA

    Will come almost fully assembled and with a warranty.

  12. #12
    Senior Member datlas's Avatar
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    If you feel strongly that you want to build this up, be my guest. It may be an interesting project. Foolish IMO, but interesting.

    It is much easier and cheaper to buy a new bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by RUOkie View Post
    never underestimate the idiocy of BF.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by datlas View Post
    If you feel strongly that you want to build this up, be my guest. It may be an interesting project. Foolish IMO, but interesting.

    It is much easier and cheaper to buy a new bike.
    I totally understand this... I would be just fine on the least expensive bike there is and maybe upgrading the wheels in the future. Like I said though I REALLY WANT TO DO THIS. I am fairly certain that if I don't buy anything on sundays and make sure I am buying below average cost and used on everything that I could scrap the bike and get my money back or maybe even just turn it into a fixie for cheap with no brakes a cheap pair of bull horns and sell it locally for $150-200. Fairly certain I could get that because my friend sells crappier bikes at his second hand shop for more and he could sell my bike on consignment. I have quite a few friends in the industry. That guy doesn't have a very good bike shop but he is doing it with his son and just started it up. My best friends dad owns a huge bike store and museum (going to get my next CX bike at cost from him but I can only cash in on that deal once in a great while). I have a friend that owns a tiny tiny bike shop that almost only does custom fabrication and special bike builds (like a commissioned deal to build a $4k bike based off of a 1970 frame complete with dynamo hub and lighting system). Lastly I have a friend that works at a huge second hand shop and I am starting to get good with the manager and lead technician there so that now even if my friend is not there the manager will give me good deals. For example I bought a nice 700C rear wheel for $10 that had a decent ding in the rim. Fixed it with a crescent wrench and then I trued it myself (the best I could as I'm learning and have only trued about 10 wheels).

    The thing is I WANT to do this and learn from it.

    So what I am begging you guys to do is to cheer me on and give me pointers.

    For example the ISO vs JIS I never knew about... I believe this fork was something that was commonly included with this frame as a set. So I would like to believe that it is the correct fork.

    So that is very good info to know.

    Also as far as the tools go... I don't mind buying them since I will have them forever anyways and prefer to do all my own bicycle repair.

  14. #14
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Well onto other questions then. You should buy shifters before cassette. If you want a 32t big cog in back you should probably get an mtb rear derailleur, probably don't want rapid rise. Don't get a Sram rear derailleur, shimano only. Don't get 10sp either cuz dynasys.

    Rx100 7sp. Brifters were really cheap a few years ago still get them for $50 if you look around. I got some along with an entire bike for $60 a while ago. The bike had sat outside of 3 years so I had to flush brifters a LOT before clicking commemced.

    I recently got Ultegra 9sp set for $45. I run those with Rx100 front der. And xtr 9sp rear der and cassette. Works great.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  15. #15
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    ...my only other helpful (hopefully) suggestion to you on this is that if you can find a bike co-op or other
    non profit bike repair educational facility in your vicinity, it's a lot more efficient in doing something like this
    rather than attempting for well meaning guys on the internet to type words that may or may not work as
    well as grunting and pointing in a real world environment. I do that here (work at a bike co-op) and even in
    real life it can be difficult to convey the essentials in compatibility and assembly......too many variables.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  16. #16
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    As someone who has knitted socks and dishcloths, I *get* what you're doing although I'm not sure I'd go through the frustration of doing it with a bike. The people who say it would be easier/cheaper to buy a new bike are like the people who say it would be cheaper/easier to buy socks at Walmart. And they're right. It makes a lot more sense to get 3 pair for $5 instead of spending $20+ on yarn, needles, etc then investing hours that could be spent riding a bike or working to buy more socks. At the same time, +/- $25 for 75 hours of entertainment is a lot better use of money than spending that amount of money for dinner and a two hour movie.

    Where you're going to wind up spending a lot of money on this project, I think, is tools that you may only use once or twice. That, in addition to the expertise within shouting distance, is where a bike co-op will come in handy. And even though you may be happier not buying top of the line parts for the bike, don't skimp when it comes to buying tools. It's better to buy a good-quality tool once instead of a chintzy one three or four times.

    That's my two-cent's worth. As PG Wodehouse used to say "I shall follow your future endeavours with great interest."
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    Earmuffs!!! This is a family forum, miss!

  17. #17
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramona_W View Post
    The people who say it would be easier/cheaper to buy a new bike are like the people who say it would be cheaper/easier to buy socks at Walmart.
    ...I resent your implication here that I buy my socks at Walmart. It's always either JC Penny or Costco. #harumph
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  18. #18
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    Just so all of you who think I should just buy a different bike don't think I am ignoring you.

    I was looking through craigslist and thinking of possibly buying a used bike with a decent group set on it and just swapping it over and selling the other stuff and maybe keeping both sets of wheels...

    Not sure yet... where I live the deals move quick... I had called a guy within 30 minutes of posting a 2013 9 speed shimano group set bike that sells new for $600 and he wanted $100 with a bike lock and helmet. But that thing was gone... found another deal for $150 but then someone beet me to that.

    I think if I wait it out I can find a decent bike and just disregard wether it fits me or not. Then I can just swap over everything except the crank and BB (unless it is a GXP but doubt it in my price range).

    Anyways I think for what it would cost me to finish this bike I could end up with an extra set of wheels, a frame set, bottom bracket, and crankset to sell or turn into a single gear for me (if i want it, and i don't) or for my wife if she wanted it (probably doesn't).

    So thanks for being so rude and disregarding my wishes (sarcasm)

    You probably saved me a lot of money or at least got me a free pair of wheels.

    ----------

    I'm still going to need help building this bike and I am still going to build this bike!!!

    I also have a bike now that I am going to sell to help fund it. Should be able to get $75-125 for it. I don't know why but I get tons of compliments when riding the bike LOL its an old 27"er with some changes. The pedals, crankset, and brakes are worth 2x what the bike is and my shoes are worth as much as they are. In other words... crappy bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
    ...my only other helpful (hopefully) suggestion to you on this is that if you can find a bike co-op or other
    non profit bike repair educational facility in your vicinity, it's a lot more efficient in doing something like this
    rather than attempting for well meaning guys on the internet to type words that may or may not work as
    well as grunting and pointing in a real world environment. I do that here (work at a bike co-op) and even in
    real life it can be difficult to convey the essentials in compatibility and assembly......too many variables.
    Should have mentioned...

    That is where I get stuff for nothing... bought a 105 front derailleur for my current bike for $1 in the tip jar. $600 worth of used shoes and $300 worth of pedals for $60 that was 1 pair walkable and 1 pair highest end shoe each for me and my wife (all sidi) and an extra pair of the highest end sidi for a pair of SPD-SL (3-hole) pedals. SPD pedals for all the bikes plus the SPD-SL pedals I am not using. Brand new helmet (generic) $15, awesome expensive helmet case $5, compact brakes from duracomp $4.50.

    First found the place when a crankset broke. Bought a new crankset and they showed me how to install it $10. The crankset sells on eBay for $25-45 depending on if you have the dust covers... I left one at the shop .

    Anyways... I have some resources and I really want to do this.
    Last edited by Murphwi; 07-01-14 at 08:34 PM.

  19. #19
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    I think building a bike is a great idea. I built my Salsa Vaya from a frameset. Sure, it may have cost a little more but it was a great learning experience. Since then, I've built up a couple of bikes

    Best part is that I don't have a cookie cutter bike and I don't take my bike to the LBS when I need an adjustments or repairs. I've taught myself to press in bearings, build wheels, and pretty much anything that needs done.

    Get your hands dirty and have fun!

  20. #20
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    And for when you do have questions, you'll probably get a more positive response in the mechanics forum.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by evrythngsgngrn View Post
    And for when you do have questions, you'll probably get a more positive response in the mechanics forum.
    OK,

    Thanks

    Progress note, Javelin said the bering race needed to be pressed on. Had it pressed on for $5. Bought a Alex Rims AT450 complete rear wheel used for $10. I have a front wheel that is the same thickness... so I will just sell those other wheels with the low spoke count.

  22. #22
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    So if anyone cares I'd like to give a progress update...

    i figured that what I had invested into the bike plus what I needed to get to finish it warranted me looking at other used bikes...

    and well something crazy happened.

    I came across a 2010 or 2011 (can't figure out) Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra w/ the Lefty Headshock. It originally had flat bars and 3x9 indexed shifting system. The owner converted it to some NOS Coda billet 2 chainring crankset, drop bars, 2x10 brifters w/ 9 speed conversion cam, hope hydraulic disc brakes with a bar mounted master cylinder/wire brake converter, beautiful fenders, perfect condition eggbeater pedals, cleats, shoes that will fit my wife, white tires, spare black thickslicks, and some other spare parts.

    I paid him $950 shipped and with the shipping being over $100 I think it was a good deal.

    The cranks sell for well over $100 all scratched up and $300 NOS and these are mint so I'm just going to slap on my SRAM 50/34 compact GXP since I believe that's what these use and sell the Coda crankset, the frame I bought and all those parts and wheels I got.

    I picked up a nifty NOS Shimano 9 speed inline tube shift indicator for $5 shipped (actually grabbed 2 since the price was right) going to throw that on there.

    So far from the bike I was originally trying to make but it's beautiful and I like it a lot. If I can't sell the frame I have for a decent price I may do a single speed build with it.

    thanks for the help guys...

  23. #23
    Senior Member goenrdoug's Avatar
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    Well, that build took a left turn!

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