UglyMonday

Hello all!
I’ve been following the forum for a long while as a reader and this is my first post here.

I’ve been working on a side project which basically deals with building a device that replicates any terrain on a stationary bicycle:not something really new or particularly novel.

But recently I thought that it might be possible to build a device that adds assistance or resistance to any regular bicycle during outdoor ride (not an indoor trainer).

That computer controlled device could sense many things (terrain, wind, cadence/power applied to wheel, etc.) and adjust the level or resistance or assistance according to a training program, which you, as a user, could define. Furthermore, coupled with a heartbeat monitor (like Fitbit) it could condition your zone training and help you stay in your training zone, so that you could concentrate on your ride more than on monitoring your heartbeat.

It could be very lightweight (below 2-3 lbs probably?) and small.

Does anyone see a value in such device? Why yes and why not?

I’d really appreciate any thoughts or comments.

RPK79

A solution in search of a problem.

Dan333SP

PowerWheel is designed to make your race bike go ... slower?

Someone beat you to it, and it didn't take off from what I can tell.

The idea actually isn't bad, but it would have to be very cheap to gain any traction because it's a lot easier to just push harder on the pedals and get your HR up, or go uphill, rather than setting up and adjusting a device that increases resistance.

RPK79

It would be like paying for a headwind. I've never once wished I could be going slower while still maintaining a high effort level.

UglyMonday

That device only applies resistance. I am thinking about resistance plus assistance, controlled by microprocessor. A conditioning device, that would tweak your efforts slightly.
Yes, it is lot easier to push harder or go uphill-if you live near by a hill or traffic is not a restriction?

UglyMonday

I think it is more about decoupling the level of effort from your speed and terrain. Giving you control over your level of effort, speed and the way terrain affects your ride-making all these variables independent to some degree and controllable by you.

For instance, you could go fast and put a lot of effort on the flat, or could go fast, put a moderate effort uphill. Or any other combination of these variables.

PepeM

You could probably achieve that with any modern e-bike and some coding.

If you can build a motor + battery + computer that only adds 2-3lbs to the weight of the bike and lasts more than a few minutes, you might have a small chance of selling it, without the 'training' thing, which I honestly doubt anyone would care for.

Dan333SP

I see what you're getting at, but IMO there just isn't a market for that sort of device. I think people prefer to let the terrain and conditions dictate their effort on the road, while targeted work like you describe can be done on an indoor smart trainer without really adding anything to your bike other than a special skewer or tire. If I want to do a workout like that, I fire up Zwift. Otherwise I ride outside and if I need structure I'll do intervals or hill repeats.

It also seems like a device that could add enough resistance to a bike to force a rider to put down a lot of power to go slowly would generate a lot of heat and/or wear out quickly. All that energy has to go somewhere.

PepeM

Could use it to charge a battery, which would then be used to drive the motor used for the 'assistance' part.

Dan333SP

So basically like an F1 car's ERS system, except the deployment and recovery under "braking" happens at user-preset intervals.

It would definitely work if designed properly, but it wouldn't be cheap, and would probably require a dedicated rear wheel. Not sure people would be willing to pay very much for that.

But hey, maybe start a gofundme, see what the global interest is.

Seattle Forrest

Exactly this.

PepeM

It certainly wouldn't weigh 2-3 lbs. Current 'hidden' motors are a bit heavier than that and generate something like 200 watts for like 30 minutes or so. For this thing to be useful it would need to be able to generate a lot more watts than that in order to 'flatten' the hills and also hopefully last longer. What all that means is that it would be heavier. At the same time, in order to generate the increased resistance, it would need a very powerful brake which, again, would weigh a lot. There is a reason why current smart trainers are 20lbs or so, a powerful motor and a powerful brake will not be light.

So again, if you can create a 2-3lbs motor + battery + computer combo that can generate high power and last fairly long (and not cost a fortune), there might be a market for it without the whole 'training' thing.

UglyMonday

Would you be willing to do the same (well, or close to the same) training as you do indoors with Zwift, but outdoors with real terrain instead of Zwift?

UglyMonday

I am positive that I can make the device to be under 3 lbs and be affordable (under few hundred bucks? don't know yet). Though it would work differently than you think.

mpath

This.

Or about as desirable as this - sure there's probably some benefit, but why not just HTFU?

Drew Eckhardt 

We already have that in the form of gears. If you want more resistance at the same cadence chose a smaller cog, and for less use a larger one. On flat ground those let me work hard enough I'm spent in a couple minutes and almost fall off my bike, and up-hill they let me climb grades to 10% at an endurance pace.

As an added bonus, cooling airflow increases when you work harder and go faster.

Pushing harder works fine on flat ground too.

You can't do anything about stops from traffic except riding at a different time or location.

UglyMonday

I think that by changing the gear (or cog) you change the torque, needed to move at the same speed, but not the rolling resistance of the bicycle. What could increase the resistance is the bike speed, but then I am often limited by traffic laws: speed limit, congestion (in city), etc...

smarkinson

I see no value in such a device.

If I want to change the level of resistance I just use the gears on the bike.

You need to define what sort of person would want something like this and why they would need it.

I think anyone who was serious enough about training to be worrying about HR zones would be trying to avoid training in heavy traffic or in slow moving pedestrian and cycle traffic on a MUP in the first place.

Dan333SP

Exactly. They'd be riding out of the city as a warmup and then doing efforts on empty roads. If empty roads weren't accessible they'd be on a trainer. Doing a hard effort at lower speed won't prevent someone from getting stuck at lights or stop signs or crosswalks, and it may actually increase their risk as their speed relative to traffic would be less.

Doug28450

Sounds reasonable.

Seattle Forrest

No because I can't push 350 watts through a red light.

When I want a good workout outdoors, I choose a suitable route. Yesterday it was hill repeats.

cyclezen

sounds like marriage

thanks, I'm all set...

GreenAnvil

Hello Ugly,

I say go for it! As Mr "T" would say, what the heck do you have to lose?

My best friend from high school was a very bright guy; always dreamed of creating something. His Mom, however, didn't see any value in new ideas and took the wind from his sails by telling him that eveything had been invented already and he'd have as good a chance as any by inventing "a butthole that wouldn't poop"...

My friend sort of gave up after this... never went to college... last I heard he's living in the Bronx and hasn't done much with his life. True story. (Edited to add: not that lving in the Bronx is a bad thing; my friend's just not in the nicest part of town.)

I used to think that ellipticals were sort of treadmills for old people with bad knees, and who would've thought, I now see people out on the road riding on "ellipticals on wheels"...

Build a proto for yourself... show it to your friends. Ya never know...

caloso

Yes, this. We all have our training routes, that usually involves riding out of town to a quiet road or underused portion of the bike trail.

UglyMonday

Just found this: The AIRhub - Terrain Dynamics .
Here is how it is used: Training Scenarios

Here is what some say: AirHUB - Auto resistance front hub: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

Pretty good reviews, though pretty expensive too.

My idea is a bit different though...