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  1. #1
    Speed is Life... UnfilteredDregs's Avatar
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    Garmin 810/510...GPS/Navigation, turn by turn...etc...

    So...

    I'm on the fence right now about plunking down cash for a cycling dedicated computer...

    At minimum I want cadence, speed, heartrate, and ride tracking...

    That is easy. I could go with a Garmin 500 and be basically happy. I can't see spending an additional $120 for uploading via my phone and live tracking. I'd only consider the 510 if the touch screen really is worth it in ride...

    Navigation is where it's at for me...

    I really like the idea of not having to reference a queue sheet and having turn by turn right in front of me on an MFD. So I can just ride...

    However...what bugs me is that with Garmin it seems you have to buy their maps?

    Why no integration with google maps?

    Isn't that what sites like Strava, Map My Ride and Ride With GPS are basically using?

    Why the propietary stuff?

    What's the story with free, open source maps?
    Poetically vacant... -U.D.

  2. #2
    Senior Member fstshrk's Avatar
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    Do you ride long distance (rando) type rides? If yes, then go with Edge 800/810. If no, stay with 500. I use an Edge 800 with OpenStreetMaps downloaded to an SD card.
    Works great.
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  3. #3
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    Open Street Maps work great for an Edge with turn-by-turn capabilities. Check out How to download free maps to your Garmin Edge 705/800/810 | DC Rainmaker for information on how it all works.

  4. #4
    Senior Member fstshrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafzali View Post
    Open Street Maps work great for an Edge with turn-by-turn capabilities. Check out How to download free maps to your Garmin Edge 705/800/810 | DC Rainmaker for information on how it all works.
    I prefer using this site:

    Index of /garmin/Lambertus/2014-07-22

    and download the 4G img.
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  5. #5
    Farmer tan f4rrest's Avatar
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    It depends on what you mean by "navigation."

    The 500 and 510 use "courses" (a .tcx file) without an actual map display or street names. Just "turn left", "go north" along with a line indicating where your path should be and an arrow showing your position relative to the path. Heck, even my old 305 did this. This is entirely sufficient to get by without route slips.

    The convenience with the 510 is that you can load the courses from your phone without plugging your garmin into a PC.

  6. #6
    Stand and Deliver FLvector's Avatar
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    If you plan on going with the Garmin 500 or 510, ridewithgps is free and easy to use for creating and uploading the maps. I have the 500 and have been very happy with it. The 510 is touch screen, color and the text appears larger and easier to read. It's just a matter of what options and price point you're looking for and if additional mapping feature are really necessary. They give turn-by-turn directions and a snail trail which is enough for me.

  7. #7
    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    I've been a faithful Garmin Edge user from 705 to 800 to 810. The only meaningful downside in my opinion is the non-replaceable battery. Keep it long enough and the battery discharges faster and you probably can't get 10 hours out of it anymore by the third year if you use it for long rides a couple few times a week.
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

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    I absolutely despise cue sheets so I got a 500. Since Garmin is known for using buyers as beta testers, being one of their oldest models, the 500 has most of the issues worked out & it's their smallest unit (afaik).

  9. #9
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    I wondered the same thing about the Google Maps compatibility. Having no experience with newer cycle computers, I wonder why one wouldn't want to just use an iPhone or Android with some ANT+ or Bluetooth accessories and sensors? Are the dedicated units just easier to use? Do they really have more features?

  10. #10
    SpIn SpIn SuGaR! FIVE ONE SIX's Avatar
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    i use a Garmin Edge 500, and i personally hate using it as a GPS when i use it to upload routes of streets i'm not familiar with. it takes a while upload your progress, meaning that if you see that you have to make a turn and you're not sure which street to turn on, you will definitely miss the turn. also, there have been numerous times when it will say that i'm off the course when i'm not, and then you start questioning yourself and where you're going. me personally, i use the same Garmin Edge 500 with the K-Edge XL mount and my Samsung Galaxy S4 with a Quad Lock bike mount and case, and i personally love the combo. that way, i can still use the Garmin to keep track all of my stats, and the phone is strictly used for Google Maps (which is WAY better than any other GPS i've ever used) and any music if i'm riding alone...

    trust me, i REALLY tried to like the Garmin as far as planing and uploading a route goes, but it's WAY too slow...
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  11. #11
    Stand and Deliver FLvector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX View Post
    i use a Garmin Edge 500, and i personally hate using it as a GPS when i use it to upload routes of streets i'm not familiar with. it takes a while upload your progress, meaning that if you see that you have to make a turn and you're not sure which street to turn on, you will definitely miss the turn. also, there have been numerous times when it will say that i'm off the course when i'm not, and then you start questioning yourself and where you're going. me personally, i use the same Garmin Edge 500 with the K-Edge XL mount and my Samsung Galaxy S4 with a Quad Lock bike mount and case, and i personally love the combo. that way, i can still use the Garmin to keep track all of my stats, and the phone is strictly used for Google Maps (which is WAY better than any other GPS i've ever used) and any music if i'm riding alone...

    trust me, i REALLY tried to like the Garmin as far as planing and uploading a route goes, but it's WAY too slow...
    I haven't experienced the latency problem with the 500 updating current position. It does lose signal when under heavy canopy or overpasses, etc. and will give an off course warning. It doesn't happen enough for me to cause any problems. It can be tough to follow in areas with several quick turns. In that case I usually scroll to the screen that shows the next 5-6 turns and lists the street names, how far ahead and the direction of the turn. I do need to slow down a bit to focus on the screen since it a bit small to read. But otherwise, works very well for my needs.

  12. #12
    Speed is Life... UnfilteredDregs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiFiGuy1 View Post
    I wondered the same thing about the Google Maps compatibility. Having no experience with newer cycle computers, I wonder why one wouldn't want to just use an iPhone or Android with some ANT+ or Bluetooth accessories and sensors? Are the dedicated units just easier to use? Do they really have more features?

    Other than battery life, which is easily resolved with something like an ANKER, I have the same thoughts. I have a GPS receiver. I have a device capable of navigation, where I can access maps, etc..

    Right now I use an iphone, I have a wahoo cadence sensor, etc...With the ANKER I get upwards of 15+ hours run time.
    Poetically vacant... -U.D.

  13. #13
    Speed is Life... UnfilteredDregs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX View Post
    i use a Garmin Edge 500, and i personally hate using it as a GPS when i use it to upload routes of streets i'm not familiar with. it takes a while upload your progress, meaning that if you see that you have to make a turn and you're not sure which street to turn on, you will definitely miss the turn. also, there have been numerous times when it will say that i'm off the course when i'm not, and then you start questioning yourself and where you're going. me personally, i use the same Garmin Edge 500 with the K-Edge XL mount and my Samsung Galaxy S4 with a Quad Lock bike mount and case, and i personally love the combo. that way, i can still use the Garmin to keep track all of my stats, and the phone is strictly used for Google Maps (which is WAY better than any other GPS i've ever used) and any music if i'm riding alone...

    trust me, i REALLY tried to like the Garmin as far as planing and uploading a route goes, but it's WAY too slow...
    I was thinking of a similiar arrangement...
    Poetically vacant... -U.D.

  14. #14
    Speed is Life... UnfilteredDregs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
    It depends on what you mean by "navigation."

    The 500 and 510 use "courses" (a .tcx file) without an actual map display or street names. Just "turn left", "go north" along with a line indicating where your path should be and an arrow showing your position relative to the path. Heck, even my old 305 did this. This is entirely sufficient to get by without route slips.

    The convenience with the 510 is that you can load the courses from your phone without plugging your garmin into a PC.
    Full blown GPS is what I mean...map, street names, etc.. Directions devoid of references are sketchy at best and what if you get off your route? As little operator interpretation as possible...
    Poetically vacant... -U.D.

  15. #15
    SpIn SpIn SuGaR! FIVE ONE SIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLvector View Post
    It can be tough to follow in areas with several quick turns. In that case I usually scroll to the screen that shows the next 5-6 turns and lists the street names, how far ahead and the direction of the turn.
    are you sure you're using a 500?! cause the 500 doesn't list street names, it just shows a line that you have to follow. that's why i use Google Maps, which is extremely accurate, and i figured out how to pre-load routes to Google Maps using the chrome to phone extension...

  16. #16
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    I used a 500 for a while and I'd plan my route on RWGPS and upload it to the garmin whenever I was riding a new route in unfamiliar territory. It works OK. You can get a little LCD track to follow, so if you miss a turn, you refer to the page with the track and you can work your way back on course. It works OK for what it is, but the turn alerts tend to come up as you're blowing through your turn, so it's not perfect.

    I have an 800 now and I want to hurl that *** thing through a mirror some days. For some reason, if you blow through your turn and then get back on track, it has a tantrum and the "distance to next turn" field stops working correctly. Argh. You do get the advance pop up alerts though, like you would on a regular GPS (and coupled with that distance to next field, I know when to start looking) but sometimes it doesn't work. I think the screen is hard to read even if you stop, so when I get lost, which happened to me TWICE yesterday on my 80 mile jaunt, I stop and whip out the cell phone and check google maps.

    I do like the data collection of the garmin (or similar) units and I've had enough phones die on me mid ride that I like keeping my phone in a jersey pocket for emergencies. That's just me though.

    Extra rant: Ok Garmin - listen up. When I miss a turn I do NOT WANT to navigate directly to the end of the course. Most people are riding a loop so if I miss the first turn on a 100 mile ride then no, I don't want to quit. They really need to tweak recalculate so it gets you back on course, or takes you back to where you want off course. As it stands today, recalculating seems to be about the most poorly considered feature ever implemented on a garmin, and that's saying something.

  17. #17
    Speed is Life... UnfilteredDregs's Avatar
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    Reality is that dedicated devices like the Garmin are fast becoming an anachronism, rightfully so...

    They simply should just sell an app that integrates with whatever GPS you're using, syncs with sensors, and tracks your cycling.

    Dedicated hardware is ridiculous considering the capabilities of smartphones.
    Poetically vacant... -U.D.

  18. #18
    Stand and Deliver FLvector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX View Post
    are you sure you're using a 500?! cause the 500 doesn't list street names, it just shows a line that you have to follow. that's why i use Google Maps, which is extremely accurate, and i figured out how to pre-load routes to Google Maps using the chrome to phone extension...
    Yes, using the 500 and on one page it gives a cue sheet of the next 3 turns, the street names, an arrow showing the direction of the turn, how many miles to the next turn and how many minutes to get there. You can scroll to another page to give you the snail trail showing the name of the next turn. But you have to use a TCX file.

    Once the map is created in ridewithgps.com you have the choice to upload as a TCX or a GPX file. The TCX file will give you the turn-by-turn directions with street names, etc. The GPX file only loads the GPS snail trail - I think. I don't ever use the GPX file, so not really sure. Sounds like you're not using a TCX file with a cue sheet.

  19. #19
    Stand and Deliver FLvector's Avatar
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    I looked at Ridewithgps.com and see that there are two types of GPX files. You have the option to export the GPX Track file which contains no cue sheet info, just a breadcrumb trail. Or you can export the GPX Route file which contains cue sheet turn by turn directions, but no snail trail. The TCX file includes both.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
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    You can easily create routes on the Garmin connect site for free. Or download group rides from ridewithgps etc.

    On the 510, you only get breadcrumb type navigation, which works well unless you get off route, then its dicey.

  21. #21
    Stand and Deliver FLvector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
    You can easily create routes on the Garmin connect site for free. Or download group rides from ridewithgps etc.

    On the 510, you only get breadcrumb type navigation, which works well unless you get off route, then its dicey.
    I haven't had much luck creating routes on the GC site. I found that either creating new routes, or modifying an existing route on ridewithgps to be much easier. Once you review the cue sheet, then export the file as a TCX and load into the Garmin. It should work the same for the 510. If there is no cue sheet embedded in the original map, then you only get a breadcrumb trail. And ridewithgps is free as well.

  22. #22
    SpIn SpIn SuGaR! FIVE ONE SIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLvector View Post
    Sounds like you're not using a TCX file with a cue sheet.
    i used to create a route using mapmyride.com, then export it to my desktop as a GPX, then convert it to a Garmin Course TCX on GPSies.com. then, on the Garmin, i would go to Training > Course > select the one i wanted > hit Start Course > then i get the breadcrumb trail. am i doing something wrong?

    and when i went on ridewithgps.com, the only export option i had was gpx track, not gpx route like you said. i personally hate the breadcrumb trail...
    Last edited by FIVE ONE SIX; 07-28-14 at 05:25 PM.

  23. #23
    Stand and Deliver FLvector's Avatar
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    My guess is somehow the embedded cue sheet is getting lost in the process. I'd suggest you give ridewithgps a try and see if it works for you. You just need to set up a free account. It's actually pretty easy once you learn the steps. I used to use mapmyride but couldn't figure out how to export into the garmin with a cue sheet. It's fine for printing cue sheets and maps. Give ridewithgps a try and be sure to export the file as a tcx file.

  24. #24
    Farmer tan f4rrest's Avatar
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    Using a phone for nav is fine if you have reception. I often go places that don't. Luckily, the garmin nav doesn't rely on cell phone towers.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX View Post
    are you sure you're using a 500?! cause the 500 doesn't list street names, it just shows a line that you have to follow.
    As FL Vector has explained, the Garmin 500 does provide turn-by-turn guidance with street names & time / distance to next turn, etc (as long as you use tcx files with embedded cue sheets). Cue sheets are automatically created/embedded when you create the routes in RWGPS.

    If you get tcx files from others (like a local club), the file may or may not have the embedded cue sheets - best to create your own so you know what's in there.

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