|
What makes a bike stable?
Hi all,
I'm curious what parameters make a bike stable, or shall I say, more stable. I mean the kind of stability that allows you to take both hands off your handlebars and zip up your jersey, or whatever. Like we could all do on our small ancient Schwinn's (or whatever) when we were kids. Yeah, I know all the guys in the TdF can do it, but they're athletes, and I'm not even close. So what things can help a klutz like me? Longer chainstays seem to be one item. Less "aggressive" head angle (I think that means a lower angle, like 71-72 deg, right?) seems to be another. What about bottom bracket height or drop? What about 650b rims and tires rather than 700c? What about fatter tires and/or tire pressure? What else? Thanks in advance, Dick |
Look up "trail". It's related to the head tube angle and fork rake.
Also, speed helps. Bikes are more stable the faster you are moving. |
Endurance road bikes have a more forgiving geometry to allow ease of riding and comfort than racing road bikes which will have a geometry designed to optimize a rider's strength and speed.
Different bikes will ride differently depending on what kind of ride a bike manufacturer seeks for them. |
As mentioned trail and chainstay length are important factors but I recently noticed that moving my saddle forward made it much more stable with no hands.
I didn't have a problem before mind you but now it's effortless and I never have to make broad corrections if that makes sense. Don't go moving your saddle just for this reason though, I was playing with saddle fit for some knee tenderness and comfort and as a byproduct noticed the increased hands-free stability. |
more trail .. until there is too much ..
|
Originally Posted by dicktill
(Post 17010757)
Hi all,
I'm curious what parameters make a bike stable ... Hmmm ... probably more than 4 bicycles. :lol: [HR][/HR] http://www.cyclingcartoons.com/wp-co...1262649410.gif [HR][/HR] OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming. :) |
a long wheel base
|
Originally Posted by kleng
(Post 17011238)
a long wheel base
|
n+1 where n is whatever number of bikes you have starting at 1.
|
Training wheels help too
|
Practice.
|
|
The bike steers into the direction it's falling to adjust it's cg.
|
It's a serious question that deserves a scholarly answer.
Historical Review of Thoughts on Bicycle Self-Stability Click the link "StableHistoryv32Arend.pdf" on the above linked web page to download the article.
Originally Posted by Article Summary
Summary
This paper is the historical motivation for the Science Magazine (April 15 2011) paper [1] “A bicycle can be self-stable without gyroscopic or caster effects”. The claim in that title is only interesting if people thought otherwise. Our main thesis, documented here, is that people did and do think otherwise. Most attempts to explain bicycle self-stability have appealed either to front wheel gyroscopic effects, or to caster effects, or both. After an introductory Chapter 1, Chapter 2 surveys 140 years of bicycle self-stability thoughts and explanations. The final three chapters discuss the three most-important references in detail. Chapter 3 concerns the gyroscope theories of Felix Klein and Arnold Sommerfeld (1910) [2]. Since they rely on numbers from Whipple (1899) [3], we also checked Whipple’s calculations. Chapter 5 describes and critiques the best known, by far, of the papers about trail, that by David E.H. Jones (1970,2006) [4]. |
Wheelbase has very little influence. Trying riding a tandem without a stoker. It may turn slower, but it's no more stable than a single bike with nearly half the wheelbase.
|
What makes a stable? The rider.
|
Originally Posted by Mvcrash
(Post 17011740)
What makes a stable? The rider.
|
Having a headset that isn't too tight.
|
Even with negative trail, short wheelbase and counter-rotating very small wheels to minimize gyroscopic effect of the wheels, this riderless bicycle analog is self-stable.
Quicktime slow motion video (video clip from Science article referenced in my post above.) |
Originally Posted by Lazyass
(Post 17011871)
Having a headset that isn't too tight.
|
Originally Posted by Lazyass
(Post 17011871)
Having a headset that isn't too tight.
Also if you google around, there have been some discussions about tight cabling which inhibits free steering of the front wheel thus making riding no-hands difficult. |
Don't forget fork flop. That is, a very long stem would put more weight, further in front of the headset, affecting the speed the fork falls into the turns.
|
I love this question, because there are so many authoritative and utterly wrong answers floating around the interwebs. Present company excepted of course.
There could still be a heated debate though, as controversial as the question can be. I'll just throw this out there: do counter-rotating gyroscopes really cancel each other out with respect to stability? If not, which physical property (if any) does get cancelled out? Just food for thought ... I don't think I'll be following up in the thread. |
Originally Posted by Jiggle
(Post 17011456)
The bike steers into the direction it's falling to adjust it's cg.
|
The right meds.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:18 AM. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.