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why spend $thousands just to customize

Old 08-25-14, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaeger99
Whether you agree with me or not is immaterial. It's a fact. The LBS as willing to swap out the OE saddle for a Prologo model they had in stock. They told me to try that one out for a week, and if I didn't like it I could return it. I didn't like it. I returned it and swapped for a different Prologo model (Scratch) that I freaking loved. Many happy miles on that one. Two saddle swaps, total cost = zero.

The tires they offered at a discount as I left them with the brand new OE tires. I think it was a grand total of $50.

So that's a very, very long way from "thousands" on an immediate saddle swap and tire upgrade as suggested by the OP.
Actually, it is very "material." That's all well and good YOUR LBS was kind enough to allow you to try a saddle for a week and if you didn't like it, you could return it. What your LBS "allows" you to do is just that...what your LBS "allows" you to do.

Not everyone has the luxury of getting free saddles, hence the reason they have price tags affixed to them. That's also a fact.
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Old 08-25-14, 11:57 AM
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Perhaps not everyone, but offering a saddle trial program is pretty standard practice. Details vary of course.
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Old 08-25-14, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Perhaps not everyone, but offering a saddle trial program is pretty standard practice. Details vary of course.
Absolutely. I'm just saying not everyone is going to get a free saddle from an LBS. In HIS case, they allowed him to swap a factory saddle, but it doesn't work that way everywhere, some of us have to buy a saddle. As we all know, saddles can get quite pricey.
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Old 08-25-14, 06:12 PM
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I bought a complete bike 2 years ago, the only original parts left of it now is the frameset
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Old 08-25-14, 06:15 PM
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Why?

Why not? It's my money, so whatsittoya?
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Old 08-25-14, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wooden Tiger
Absolutely. I'm just saying not everyone is going to get a free saddle from an LBS. In HIS case, they allowed him to swap a factory saddle, but it doesn't work that way everywhere, some of us have to buy a saddle. As we all know, saddles can get quite pricey.
I can't tell if you are aware that the underlying assumption is thst one saddle is being purchased. It is the willingness of the shop to let many saddles be tried before or after the deal is consummated that makes the whole arrangement work. I assumed that the Arione was purchased at an LBS to enable the trial process to take place.
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Old 08-25-14, 06:41 PM
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Each part on my bikes is hand picked because the end result is far superior to an off the rack bike. Money has nothing to do with it.
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Old 08-25-14, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Wooden Tiger
Actually, it is very "material." That's all well and good YOUR LBS was kind enough to allow you to try a saddle for a week and if you didn't like it, you could return it. What your LBS "allows" you to do is just that...what your LBS "allows" you to do.

Not everyone has the luxury of getting free saddles, hence the reason they have price tags affixed to them. That's also a fact.
No, it isn't. I said that MY saddle swap cost nothing. You called me on it. You were wrong. That's a fact. I didn't say that all saddle swaps are always free for all buyers all the time. But as others have already been pointed out, it is a fairly common practice - particularly in the context of a new bike purchase.

And it's not "free". I bought the bike. The bike comes with a saddle. I was just allowed to try out a couple different options, but I still only ended up with just one.

And no matter which way you want to stretch it, saddle and tires do not cost "thousands".

Last edited by Jaeger99; 08-25-14 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 08-25-14, 07:46 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Jaeger99
And no matter which way you want to stretch it, saddle and tires do not cost "thousands".
The OP never said that saddle and tires cost thousands. The title doesn't say saddle and tire cost thousands. The only one who has said anything about saddle and tires costing thousands has been you, in the negative. And now me. Thanks for that.
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Old 08-25-14, 08:29 PM
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You're welcome.
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Old 08-25-14, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JGM411
why spend thousands of dollars on a new bike but then turn around and change out seats, tires etc. Why would the engineers and designers put substandard parts on a bike ...OR ... why would you as a buyer change out parts before you experience the stock items.

I ask this because over the past couple months, I have grown accustomed to my stock Domane 5.2 seat. Are cyclists too finicky?











4

Interesting. Back in 2000 when I bought my Trek 5200, which is the direct predecessor to your 5.2, it came with a Selle Italia Flite Ti. I still have that saddle and have bought 3 others. Kinda cool that it came with a real saddle that you'd actually want to buy.

But that was the last time I bought a stock bike.
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Old 08-25-14, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
Looking at upgrading bikes I have, it's obvious that components sold separately are a terrible deal. Unless your desires are very specific, you are best off buying a whole bike. I might need to replace the frame on my Hardrock due to a stuck crankset; a new frame, crankset, BB, and cables cost as much as the whole bike on the used market, which makes it a write-off. You probably couldn't build a new Hardrock from parts for twice the price of the current model. Maybe the math is different if you have high end stuff.
This is a common misconception. You can part out a ride inexpensively and efficiently if you are patient and know where to shop. If you are buying a $1500 bike or less it is hard but if you go over that price it is easy and you get exactly what you like.
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Old 08-26-14, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RR3
Each part on my bikes is hand picked because the end result is far superior to an off the rack bike. Money has nothing to do with it.
Exactly right. Thats how I build my bikes as well.
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Old 08-26-14, 12:22 AM
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The last off the rack bike I have owned was in 1982. I found that To get the comfort and performance I wanted, I needed have certain parts that didn't necessarily come on the stock bikes at the shop.
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Old 08-26-14, 12:50 AM
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The parts that come OEM with a bike, and just like certain car parts, are built with cost in mind. They cross off all the safety boxes, rigidity, won't fail for a very long time etc. But they are not the best parts. Even the engine oil in your car could be better and give you better fuel economy. A better understanding of manufacturing and business priorities would give you an understanding as to why aftermarket exists.

There is one exception to this rule: top-of-the-line models. You will get pretty much close to everything top notch. There maybe even better parts in these builds, but the differences would be extremely marginal.
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Old 08-26-14, 05:17 AM
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I've never found a factory complete bike that was exactly what I wanted. I usually settle for finding the frameset I want with major components I'm happy with and just assume that I there will be some need to alter creature comforts like the saddle, stem length/angle, or whatever. But beyond that, I just like working on my bikes. I've hand built wheelsets for bikes that had perfectly adequate factory wheels just for the satisfaction and recreation.
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Old 08-26-14, 05:55 AM
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Do any rings ramp and shift better than the Shimano Dura-Ace rings? Not in my book

Is there a better front derailleur than the SRAM Red Yaw? Not in my book. No trimming needed ever. The combination with the Dura-Ace FH9000 is fabulous. I doubt a single bike is spec'd this way.

I am building a new rando bike. It needs cranks outside the normal length that simply not available from the big Mfgs. I am buying them from Lightning.

Factory wheels? Please.

B17 saddle. Last time I saw one of these plopped on a new bike, I had pimples and Disco dancing was the rage.

The above are a few reasons to upgrade or customize. It can cost a lot more doing it this way but eventually you have stuff you like.....bars, stems, seatposts, pedals, shoes, wheels, tires....etc.
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Old 08-27-14, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by spdracr39
Because I can.

I want my bike to hold a certain amount of "Street Cred" by Looking cool and having name brand recognizable components. It's the same reason I bought a carbon frame bike instead of keeping my good enough aluminum. Having said that I ride on a stock low end Bontrager seat because it is comfortable to me and I have no good reason to put the Fizik on yet that I already have. To enjoy a ride the bike has to be comfortable to ride and make me feel good about owning it.

I know from a necessity standpoint this is a waste of money but as I said I do it because I can.
Bingo. Me too!

The one downside of having a really cool looking bike is, at least for me, I better not suck or get dropped on my group rides.
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Old 08-27-14, 04:19 PM
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I have 2 bikes. 1 bought and then completely changed out. The only thing left is the frame and stock wheels. But I'm done with it, I want a different bike and in the process of figuring out what I want.

My MTB was built/customized from the frame up. I will posit, and I can provide proof, that you can build a very nice bike for under what it could cost from an LBS if you're patient and willing to shop around. It took me over a year to put together all the parts for my MTB. I shopped ebay, nashbar, Pricepoint, amazon, all the usual suspects. I have an unusual drivetrain (XO shifters, RD, XTR FD and crank with King headset and BB) but it works beautifully.

Anyway, why would one spend all that money on upgrades? Many reasons. My reason was that my partner didn't like the idea of me building up a new bike especially when I had just built up the MTB. His reasoning was that it would be so expensive. So I bought a stock bike and changed everything I didn't like, some for lighter weight, some for better shifting and performance, and others just because I like some bling. And the second reason for me was that I wanted a very nice hybrid commuter bike and there isn't one sold from the factory with everything I wanted. I might add that I really wanted to build a nicer bike and I was just trying to overcompensate by buying some really nice gear.

So, I'm off to building my next bike because n+1 always rules around my house . My base this time will be a Lynskey Viale or Cooper CX. I'll be building that over the course of the next year so that I don't get that stink eye look from the better half, LOL.
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Old 08-27-14, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bleui
I bought a complete bike 2 years ago, the only original parts left of it now is the frameset
My first Crumpton is that way now. Building the second one was easier becasue I knew exactly what I wanted.
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Old 08-27-14, 04:54 PM
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Hell, I still have my great granddad's axe. Replaced the handle twice and the blade three times, but it's his axe.
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Old 08-27-14, 04:56 PM
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I just buy stock bikes and ride them with little to none changes, I change the wearable components like chains and tires and stem for fit.
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Old 08-27-14, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
Hell, I still have my great granddad's axe. Replaced the handle twice and the blade three times, but it's his axe.
Heck, I have a similar old saw about my Glock 20.
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Old 08-28-14, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by krobinson103
Because as a rider I know what I like. Over many years I've found saddle/grip/gearing combos that I like. I've never seen a bike that matches exactly what I want so I either build from the frame up, or buy something close to what I like and modify it.
I agree with this answer. I recently found a bike I really liked (happens to be a Domane like the OP has), but I wanted to change a few things to make it better for my personal tastes. I changed out the seat, bars, and tires on my bike right at delivery. Fortunately, Trek makes it easy to semi-customize new bikes with their P1 program, so I was also able to order the bike with the exact stem geometry, crank arm length, gearing, etc. that I wanted rather than having to swap/buy parts later. Sure I could have ridden the bike stock, but for almost no extra money, the bike is more comfortable and enjoyable for me. As others have posted, it's the same with cars (and anyone who has a Bedazzler.) Most every car comes with some kind of radio and 4 wheels, but people like to modify that stuff all the time, so why not? It's nice to live in a world with choices.
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Old 08-28-14, 05:23 PM
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In the low and mid-range, but probably less so at the high end, manufacturers are trying to hit a Price Point. It's not skimping for the sake of skimping. Just guessing, but suppose your price target was $1400. If a straight Shimano 105 drivetrain put you over, what you might see is a mixture of 105 and Tiagra or 105 and FSA parts. So it could turn out to be something like 105 shifters and rear derailleur, Tiagra front derailleur and an FSA crank and cassette. It's all servicable, but it has the 105 for a bit of pizzaz and recognition and the other parts to help keep the price down.

My first road bike (listed at the left) was pretty much untouched except I upgraded the tires when I sliced up one of the originals. My second, and current, road bike started with a frame and fork and was originally built up with 10sp Centaur hardware. At the time, fully built up BreakAways were sold with 9sp Ultegra hardware, but that seemed to be going backwards.

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