wphamilton

Stop with the stereotypes! Jeeze.

furiousferret

It's really hard to have a group discussion about climbing on a forum, since everyone's definition is different. For some, a Cat 4 climb is significant. Others have small but steep hills. Around here we are lucky enough to have a variety of climbs including a 15 Hors Categorie climbs within cycling range. Because of that, we have a lot of cyclists that do nothing but climb all the time. These guys are strong and rail thin.

The fast climbers are probably doing around 15-20k a week and are around 2 pounds per inch of size and their 20 minute power output is probably around 4.5 w/kg. Many of us can't get to that weight (I can only get to 2.2) and getting that kind of power while staying thin takes more work than recreational riding. For me it means losing my upper body mass, which my wife is no bueno with.

So its a weight and power equilibrium. We have a 200 pounder here that is fast uphill because he has a massive FTP.

seypat

This is an interesting thread. To give my post context, some personal info:

I'm 5' 8.25" and around 200lbs. I'm built like your typical college running back. I played basketball at the college level 30 years ago at a skeletal 175lbs. Terrible climber, but good on the flats and sprints. I also was doing the boot camps and swimming at the gym. In May, I signed up for the Richmond Marathon and started the training. I was at 200lbs then. I stopped the boot camps and just focused on swimming, biking and running. I quickly gained about 10lbs in the first month of training. It was muscle added to the hamstrings on an already big set of legs. Now I am about back to the 200lbs. I got back by really watching what I eat. The body is visibly smaller except for the lower body. The gut is still there but it is very well defined and getting smaller. The upper body is a lot smaller. I have went down a shirt size, almost 2. I'm hoping to be in the 185-190lb range come mid November.

The cycling has really helped the running. But not the reverse. I still suck at climbing. The only improvement I can see is that I can climb some out of the saddle now. I could not do that before. But the training has sucked a lot of strength out of my upper body. I was trying to open an overhead door at my warehouse this morning that I hadn't opened in some time. It took me 5 trys and some struggle to get it up. Before I could just grab and yank and up it would come. But not now. I do have more endurance. But the distance training has sucked out some of the explosion I used to have.

We shall see how it all plays out. I'm hoping this will get me in shape for a really good cycling season next year. It has been interesting to see how my body is changing for the different discipline.

beatlebee 

Reading these threads leaves me scratching my head. There are a lot of people out there that are packed full o muscle, I guess.

brianmcg123

Just think of it as you get a better work out on the hills than the little guys do.

superslomo

Wait. I mean, I'm not being critical in principle, given that I've got plenty of my own gut, but what does it mean to have a gut that's well defined? Are we talking like... "webster's defines a gut as..."?

thehammerdog

Power is nice and I am sure that like Jens Voight you canpound the pavement when flat..however that largeness is not a friend of Gravity and unless your a Monster of a man withthe power and cardio of a Mt Goat on crack some skinny 145 lb dude will smoke you on the climb. so do as all us big boys do....ride in the front pull like heck and wave bye bye on the climbs.

bikepro

Of course your body weight affects your climbing. It all part of the "payload" you have to move around. There's a reason you never see heavy professional climbers.

seypat

When I say a well defined gut, I mean I know exactly where the fat is. Before there was some mass there, kind of a tire, but not really toned. Now, you can see some six pack, covered here and there by spots of fat. The muscles are starting to show through so the fat is kind of floating on top in various places. Easy to tell what is fat and what is muscle now.

Machka 

Do this ...

Walk up a hill just as you are.

Walk down again.

Put on a backpack with 10 lbs of something in it. Now walk up that hill again. Notice a difference?


Try it while cycling. Cycle up a hill just as you are, cycle down and put a backpack with 10 lbs in it and cycle up again.


Now just imagine how much easier it would be if you lost 10 lbs.

colnago62

I said the main factor for Most people. Indurain climbed well for a big guy.he also had the Vo2 max of a 150lb. rider. There aren't many 200lb. riders in the professional peleton for a reason. As has been said, most of us are victims of physics.

Leinster

Actually, I'd say more people would have more difficulty getting their ftp up to 400W, than would be unable to get their weight down to 150, 160lbs. Now, of that group that can achieve 400W, and sustain it for an hour, then yes, they should work to get their weight down if they want to climb better.

Reducing weight is going to help anyone fight gravity, obviously. But so is increasing power output, and learning how to measure that output so you don't die halfway up the hill.

colnago62

Possibly, I don't know much about the body's ability to lose lots of weight. It is hard to compare or talk about watts without knowing the size of the riders. Proably harde for a 110lb rider to produce those numbers than a 170lb rider. Yet the smaller rider pprobably would drop the heavier rider on a very long climb. Sir Bradley Wiggins lost a lot of weight when he switched to a rode focus. Indurain also lost a bunch of weight before he started winning all those TdF. The large amount of weight loss that Lance had contributed to his winning the TdF, at least according to him. Sometimes I wonder how much muscle composition plays a role. It isn't simple. Edmund Burke has a book out where he delves into something he calls Scaling, which is predicting a riders performance based on their physical size. He goes into why certain sized riders excel in different terrain. He has it all footnoted and refers to various studies and such.

krobinson103

I noticed going from commuting to touring weight on my cx bike that I lost 3-5kmh average speed for the same amount of effort. That means to maintain a faster average I'm burning way more fuel and am going to run out gas faster as there is no way I can eat enough to compensate and keep riding. Doesn't help that I weigh between 87-90kg lean and anything under that is just scarecrow stuff (as in every rib visible, gaunt face etc). I basically gave up on lighter bikes because I just break them faster. If my steel cx bike climbs a little slower I care not.

CNC2204

Yeah, cuz we all know how easy it is to loose weight.

jwalther

6'3", long legs, 167 lbs. At 51, this is my first season cycling. While I began group riding being relatively fit, I had no idea where I would fit in my Club's pace groups. Too my surprise, I discovered I could keep up with the A group, consisting mostly of guys significantly younger than I am. Even in that group, I find I am among the strongest climbers. I get passed on the downhill, and routinely find myself trailing the pack on designated hammerfest sections on the flats. Obviously, I don't generate much power, but being light helps going uphill. Point being, I think the only reason I'm a good climber is that I'm thin as a rail .

superslomo

I'm pretty sure that Indurain was a reflection of something other than just clean livin', hard trainin', and natural ability. Not sure why I think so, but I just have this strange, nagging suspicion that something else might have contributed to his VO2 Max.

ls01

no, no, no..... youre doing it all wrong!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LCsiWL6gn0

on the path

While out walking the other day I saw a kid riding by. To call him fred would have been a compliment. He was on a road bike, possibly stolen, no helmet, lousy technique, riding against traffic. Then I saw him fly up a steep hill, effortlessly. He probably weighed about 110 lbs. That was a moment of clarity for me..

StanSeven

Train so you burn 2,000 calories and then eat 1,500 calories each day. You lose weight in no time.

chasm54

I hate you. I'm your height (and nine years older, but trying to forget about it). I can sustain about 300 watts. At my absolute bottom weight that I could manage and not lose power, I'd be around 175- 180lbs. Most of the time I'm around 190. As a result I climb like a three-toed sloth.

superslomo

I would say it differently. It's certainly not easy, but it's definitely simple.

Burn 3000 calories, eat 1500. Switch it up so you don't go into starvation mode and have your metabolism slow down radically. You'll lose weight, like clockwork, at least for about 6 months, and then you hit a more durable wall until you retain/maintain for another 6 months to a year...

I lost 45 pounds this year, and am trying to keep it off, but after a 6 month window of losing I'm not expecting to take any more off, just trying to make sure it doesn't all pile right back on again... next February, I'm going to go back to the paleo-ish, 1500 calorie, periodic fasting well and see if I can't get myself to stabilize somewhere around 185... it was sure as hell not EASY, but it was a simple process, in a sense.

ls01

it is easy. stop eating. its the not eating thats hard.

localroutes

Yes, weight definitely is a major factor in climbing. The best climbers will usually be in the 130-150 lb category, but all is not lost. I assume it would be very difficult to go from 230 down to 150, but the silver lining to being 230 is your legs will be comparatively much stronger then that of a 150 lber. The problem is the force of gravity is a huge drain of that power. Now if you can basically stay at the same power and drop some amount of weight, your power to weight ratio will improve dramatically. If dropping 20-30 lbs is possible you will experience a significant improvement in climbing.
I have a friend that I ride with who loves to lift weights for his upper body and like s to show off his physique, but guess what, when he goes up a hill this kills him and acts like an anchor. He's strong enough to break frames, but My wimpy 150 lb body drops him immediately when the road tilts up. So if you have some upper body bulk that you are not particularly attached to I would ditch it as soon as possible.

CNC2204

I flux 5 pounds a day between TCB in the morn and eating.

2 years ago i was 303.

Last year i got down to 245.

Bulked up 20 pounds of mass in the gym.

Ive been at 265 all this year and have 2200 miles on the road.

My days of 200 pounds and a 32 inch waist are done by about 28 years.