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This is going to be hilarious...

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

This is going to be hilarious...

Old 09-15-14, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
So I get hooked into riding an event called "Corporate Challenge". It's a pseudo Olympics for companies. All kinds of events from track, to corn hole, to cycling, tug of war, you get it. Something for everyone.

So the cycling event is a six mile time trial. It's on public streets and they are not closed off (but there will be police to attempt to exert some control). Two major intersections (you cross the same street twice, once headed south, then back headed north).

500 (approximately) cyclists. Starting at 15 second intervals. And no drafting.

It's supposed to rain.

I can't wait.

I might have to borrow a camera to video this.

Oh, and time trial bikes are OK...that I cannot wait to see.

Is it this: ISC Corporate Challenge presented by Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield - Indiana Sports Corp ?

If so, the rules say 30 seconds between riders.

The course doesn't look that bad assuming the cops do hold up traffic at 30th (is that a problem in Indy? I only do amateur races but they manage to control things in WI).

Considering it is a non-drafting event on a flat course and there doesn't appear to be any corners sharper than 90d, why wouldn't you a time trial bike for a time trial if you have one? And even if you don't, at 30 seconds between riders on a ~15 min course how many do you expect to encounter?
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Old 09-15-14, 08:04 PM
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These Corporate Cup events are ALWAYS sandbagged by a few teams. We had a distance medley one year. Everyone was supposed to be a Director or above. Levi Strauss followed the rules. The rest of us...not so much. As I recall H-P's 2 miler ran in the very low 9s, and i ran our quarter in 50.7. Lockheed had an Olympian on their squad. So, take some video indeed, you're likely to be surprised.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick94804
These Corporate Cup events are ALWAYS sandbagged by a few teams. We had a distance medley one year. Everyone was supposed to be a Director or above. Levi Strauss followed the rules. The rest of us...not so much. As I recall H-P's 2 miler ran in the very low 9s, and i ran our quarter in 50.7. Lockheed had an Olympian on their squad. So, take some video indeed, you're likely to be surprised.
Near the bottom of the page that I posted there links to last year's results for the TT event.

SRAM's girl was slow. Wonder if she had a chain drop.

Last edited by canam73; 09-15-14 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:08 PM
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What is even the point of staggered start if everyone is going to get bunched up at a light waiting for green? Sounds like the usual half baked idea dreamed up by HR/marketing department.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
What is even the point of staggered start if everyone is going to get bunched up at a light waiting for green? Sounds like the usual half baked idea dreamed up by HR/marketing department.
Per the rules the cyclists should have the right of way, controlled by police.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73
Per the rules the cyclists should have the right of way, controlled by police.
It's going to be a mess. Don't under estimate the stupidity of drivers. I have seen people ask spectators move cones out of the way, get on a closed course and stop. While everyone screams at them to get the **** out, with pack bombing down a hill at 30+mph. I have seen marshal basically putting a foot in front of the car and stay in front of it, otherwise driver would have pulled across intersection with riders and support vehicles flying by. Unless it's a completely closed course I wouldn't risk it.

With 500 people and 30 second start times they might as well close the street. Specially if people going to be going both ways. No one is coming across without creating a dangerous situation. "Oh look police, and they are motioning for me to go! I better be an extra good driver and accelerate really, really slow!" While someone is all out effort flying towards them... in the rain.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
It's going to be a mess. Don't under estimate the stupidity of drivers. I have seen people ask spectators move cones out of the way, get on a closed course and stop. While everyone screams at them to get the **** out, with pack bombing down a hill at 30+mph. I have seen marshal basically putting a foot in front of the car and stay in front of it, otherwise driver would have pulled across intersection with riders and support vehicles flying by. Unless it's a completely closed course I wouldn't risk it.

With 500 people and 30 second start times they might as well close the street. Specially if people going to be going both ways. No one is coming across without creating a dangerous situation. "Oh look police, and they are motioning for me to go! I better be an extra good driver and accelerate really, really slow!" While someone is all out effort flying towards them... in the rain.
Well, you may want to look at the course, which is available along with the rules in the link I provided above.

It is not an out-and-back, but a clock wise loop meaning all right hand turns. The only cross traffic that seems possible is on a single street that bisects both halves of the loop, so really not that much to police.

No hills to bomb, and with 30 second gaps I would imagine that any packs that develop will be of the fairly slow moving, non competitive type of riders.

What kind of events do you see these problems in? While I certainly have seen poor drivers react badly when unexpectedly encountering an event, it has not been the norm for the USAC sanctioned races I have done or the few non-series races and triathlons I have seen.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73
Well, you may want to look at the course, which is available along with the rules in the link I provided above.

It is not an out-and-back, but a clock wise loop meaning all right hand turns. The only cross traffic that seems possible is on a single street that bisects both halves of the loop, so really not that much to police.

No hills to bomb, and with 30 second gaps I would imagine that any packs that develop will be of the fairly slow moving, non competitive type of riders.

What kind of events do you see these problems in? While I certainly have seen poor drivers react badly when unexpectedly encountering an event, it has not been the norm for the USAC sanctioned races of done or the few non-series races and triathlons I have seen.
USAC, and UCI (TOC, SF Grand Prix (when they had it)). When I was marshaling at TOC Prologue oh the *****ing and whining I heard from people that they had to walk a block to cross the street. If they were in a car I would have no doubt they would have just drove on a course if the Marshal wasn't standing directly in front of them.

Latest example, woman getting around cones and parking it on a street, was from Giro Di SF, a USAC event.

I personally had to dodge a head on with a car this season when this woman somehow made it on a closed course earlier this season.

Of course it isn't the norm, but it also on a fully closed courses (in theory).

Anyway, good luck to you, and I hope it will go without any issues. For me personally it's too much of a risk.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
USAC, and UCI (TOC, SF Grand Prix (when they had it)). When I was marshaling at TOC Prologue oh the *****ing and whining I heard from people that they had to walk a block to cross the street. If they were in a car I would have no doubt they would have just drove on a course if the Marshal wasn't standing directly in front of them.

Latest example, woman getting around cones and parking it on a street, was from Giro Di SF, a USAC event.

I personally had to dodge a head on with a car this season when this woman somehow made it on a closed course earlier this season.

Of course it isn't the norm, but it also on a fully closed courses (in theory).

Anyway, good luck to you, and I hope it will go without any issues. For me personally it's too much of a risk.
I'm not in the event. I just took the trouble to actually look it up before commenting. I like facts getting in the way of a good story.

But if it really is that sketchy I agree with you that the OP should pass. Nobody should be able to force him to risk his safety, that choice is his own.
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Old 09-15-14, 08:57 PM
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I demand video.

I do have a helmet cam I don't use.... might be worth it.
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Old 09-15-14, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73
I'm not in the event. I just took the trouble to actually look it up before commenting. I like facts getting in the way of a good story.

But if it really is that sketchy I agree with you that the OP should pass. Nobody should be able to force him to risk his safety, that choice is his own.
The fact it's not a close road in the middle of a urban area, and I have seen enough stupidity on a closed courses to know how fast can thing go wrong, and lack of judgement that drivers display.

If they wanted to do it properly they should have gotten the required permits to close off the streets, instead of this half baked idea of open roads with police trying to control things.
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Old 09-15-14, 09:08 PM
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I have course marshalled my teams annual race for a couple of years now, and I can tell you from experience that there will always be an impatient, self-centered jackass in a car who doesn't think the road closure applies to them.
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Old 09-15-14, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
The fact it's not a close road in the middle of a urban area, and I have seen enough stupidity on a closed courses to know how fast can thing go wrong, and lack of judgement that drivers display.

If they wanted to do it properly they should have gotten the required permits to close off the streets, instead of this half baked idea of open roads with police trying to control things.
Well, once again I would urge you to look at the course before commenting. Over 90% of it borders a golf course, and for much of it a river on the other side of the street.

And I have yet to do a road race, USAC sanctioned or otherwise on a course over 5 miles that has been completely closed. Maybe that is a midwest thing, but that is how it's done here and it seems to work.

Last edited by canam73; 09-15-14 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 09-15-14, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73
Well, once again I would urge you to look at the course before commentating. Over 90% of it borders a golf course, and for much of it a river on the other side of the street.

And I have yet to do a road race, USAC sanctioned or otherwise on a course over 5 miles that has been completely closed. Maybe that is a midwest thing, but that is how it's done here and it seems to work.
What makes you think I didn't? The 30th looks like it's going to be a mess. The 16th and Lafayette look more manageable. The way the course is set up they can close off key streets, fully or partially. Depending how many lanes they have.
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Old 09-15-14, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
I have course marshalled my teams annual race for a couple of years now, and I can tell you from experience that there will always be an impatient, self-centered jackass in a car who doesn't think the road closure applies to them.
Yes, see the examples I have given.
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Old 09-15-14, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
What makes you think I didn't? The 30th looks like it's going to be a mess. The 16th and Lafayette look more manageable. The way the course is set up they can close off key streets, fully or partially. Depending how many lanes they have.
Beg your pardon. Personally I don't consider golf courses to be the "middle of an urban area".
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Old 09-15-14, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by canam73
Is it this: ISC Corporate Challenge presented by Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield - Indiana Sports Corp ?

If so, the rules say 30 seconds between riders.
Says 15 seconds here: https://www.indianasportscorp.org/Ind...%285-27%29.pdf

Last year's median finishing time was 19 minutes, so, either traffic lights slow down people considerably, or the typical participant is not exactly an elite racer.
The biggest positive sign is that they held this event more than once previously, apparently in the same location (but maybe not in the rain), so they should sorta know what to expect and things shouldn't be totally out of hand.
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Old 09-15-14, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
What makes you think I didn't? The 30th looks like it's going to be a mess. The 16th and Lafayette look more manageable. The way the course is set up they can close off key streets, fully or partially. Depending how many lanes they have.
White River / 29th (stop sign before a left turn onto a busy 4-lane street) is the first spot where people are going to start getting bunched up. 16th and Lafayette are bad in general, because there's no bike lane on either, and riders would have to take the lane (that is, choose between stopping at the intersection or trying to squeeze into traffic at full speed.) Cold Spring / 30th is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old 09-16-14, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hamster
Says 15 seconds here: https://www.indianasportscorp.org/Ind...%285-27%29.pdf

Last year's median finishing time was 19 minutes, so, either traffic lights slow down people considerably, or the typical participant is not exactly an elite racer.
The biggest positive sign is that they held this event more than once previously, apparently in the same location (but maybe not in the rain), so they should sorta know what to expect and things shouldn't be totally out of hand.
That certainly could be correct. But the more in depth cycling rules https://www.indianasportscorp.org/Ind...n-2014-PDF.pdf say 30 seconds.

I agree with you on the rest except the traffic light part. The OP didn't specifically say that lights (or stop signs) significantly interfere with the course even though it is being assumed. I would like to know before just assuming this is a ****t event.

As you pointed out, they have done this before. The communities that allow racing in my area are typically not fond of unsafe events and poor management and insurance for an event of this size and prominence would be major concern, too.
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Old 09-16-14, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by canam73
Is it this: ISC Corporate Challenge presented by Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield - Indiana Sports Corp ?

If so, the rules say 30 seconds between riders.

The course doesn't look that bad assuming the cops do hold up traffic at 30th (is that a problem in Indy? I only do amateur races but they manage to control things in WI).

Considering it is a non-drafting event on a flat course and there doesn't appear to be any corners sharper than 90d, why wouldn't you a time trial bike for a time trial if you have one? And even if you don't, at 30 seconds between riders on a ~15 min course how many do you expect to encounter?
It was 30 seconds. New rules. Over 500 riders. Now it's 15 seconds.

Because of the number of riders there will be a lot of "on your left"...and crossing 30th twice is a big deal, as is the leg along 16th and up Lafayette Road.

I think it will be amusing.
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Old 09-16-14, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by canam73
That certainly could be correct. But the more in depth cycling rules https://www.indianasportscorp.org/Ind...n-2014-PDF.pdf say 30 seconds.

I agree with you on the rest except the traffic light part. The OP didn't specifically say that lights (or stop signs) significantly interfere with the course even though it is being assumed. I would like to know before just assuming this is a ****t event.

As you pointed out, they have done this before. The communities that allow racing in my area are typically not fond of unsafe events and poor management and insurance for an event of this size and prominence would be major concern, too.
Trust me...I have the current rules. Got them in an email yesterday. 15 seconds.
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Old 09-16-14, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by canam73
Beg your pardon. Personally I don't consider golf courses to be the "middle of an urban area".
It is...the golf course are older although Coffin was an old country club (Highland as I recall) and was a top course hosting a number of Public Links championships. Then they brought Pete Dye in to redo it and it's really nice. But is is in the near north end of Indy.

Personally, having done this stuff for real, I am taking a "wait and see" approach. Not going to give blood for the company to save a few seconds off a time getting into it with people that may not be that good at riding.

Many are filling a spot because to accumulate points you need participants.

It should be interesting.
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Old 09-16-14, 06:43 AM
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I have the start list. It is 11 pages long with 46 riders on a page and the last page has 6 riders...I think in the new math that's 512 riders.

LOL...I can't wait for a disqual for drafting.
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Old 09-16-14, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by zonatandem
In stead of a TT do a mass start road race . . . takes less time.
But you'd end up with 400 riders racing in a group that have never done a mass start race.

15 second intervals with people
Of vastly divergent ability will be enough of a cluster.
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Old 09-16-14, 07:26 AM
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