hamster

SRAM never had any road triples to begin with. They were the first to go 32 in the rear because they were offering the choice between compact and standard crank when Shimano still had triples all the way up to Dura Ace.

flatlander_48

It's just a consequence; that's all...

StanSeven

Of course Campy says that. Now whether you believe that it's up to you.

flatlander_48

The fact that BOTH the 1st generation Super Record EPS AND Record EPS were lighter than the 1st generation Dura Ace Di2 supports the claim.

hamster

Interesting that you'd emphasize "1st generation". I tried to add up the numbers for electronic components (FD+RD+shifters) using weights from competitivecyclist.com and it seems that all three EPS groups (Chorus, Record, Super Record)are heavier than current Dura Ace Di2 (9070). (However, all three are lighter than 6870.)

flatlander_48

No, it isn't "interesting". The statement was made at the introduction of the 1st generation EPS systems compared to the 1st Di2. I don't know what it is now. Also, why don't you go directly to the manufacturer's sites rather than to a retailer?

Added:
I checked competitivecyclist against the Campagolo site. It works out to 265gm versus 262gm, respectively. It's not much, but why should there be a difference?

However, what you did was flawed. You didn't include the battery and the connection and control hardware. You need to have EVERY item related to the e-shift systems or it's not a fair comparison.

link0

I can't wait for SRAM's wireless electronic group.

alexaschwanden

So there is own three company's that make electric shifting? Shimano ,sram , and campy.?

Sullalto

Indeed, my gimpy carpal tunnel wrists lust for electronic shifting.

flatlander_48

Other than MicroShift I believe, no one else is doing mechanical groups either.

justinzane

Most of the microcontrollers I'm familiar with can handle a reasonable large number of simultaneous inputs and outputs with a given piece of firmware (program). Having several lookup tables front and rear movements and positions is really not very difficult. It might not be practical to store all likely tables in firmware; but since USB interfaces are semi-ubiquitous, the ability to update the shift controller from a PC would be quite manageable.

The battery itself does not have to be able to meet the instant current demand of the shift motor (whatever it is). Just like camera flashes have been doing for many decades, the battery charges a sufficient capacitor which then drives the motor.

As far as weatherproofing, that is really pretty simple. Waterproof electronics have been around for decades and the costs for weatherproof enclosures are pretty minimal.

Go into a WalMart sometime and see how friggin' many battery powered, motorized toys and gadgets there are in the kids section. Those are extremely cheap, composed of COTS components and custom plastic enclosures. Sure, they may not have quite the quality or power that we are talking about, but they are manufactured in lots of 10-100k, not millions. Adding the COTS ports with sufficient power to do shifting might double the cost; $80 instead of $40 for a radiocontrolled pool robot. But, the enclosure and packaging costs are less since there is not a need to make things meet CPC toy safety requirements and the visual expectations of kids. Plain black plastic in minimalist rectangles works fine.

Derailleurs are extremely simple mechanical devices, from Shimano Tourney to Campy Super Record. Consider how much more complicated typical household items with servomotor/steppermotor functionality typically are. And, they cannot be priced with such an extreme markup because most markets will not bear it.

While someone did make the very valid point that 10k units is big sales for a bike part; it is quite possible for a Chinese/Tiawanese OEM to make the core of an electronic shifter and let others brand it. It already happens with everything from tires to saddles to cadence sensors.

bt

i think electric is going away.

flatlander_48

It's not weatherproofing. It is waterproofing. Right now, Campagnolo lists a waterproofing standard that they comply with. Don't know if anyone else is doing that.

There considerably different requirements for bike e-shift systems; high reliability being just one of them. How long do you think the products would last in the market place if they had a reputation for leaving people stranded miles from anywhere? As they say, the devil is in the details. There is no substitute for that.

Added:

Campagnolo rates the EPS systems as IP 67. This is an Intrusion Protection standard.

The two numbers in the IP 67 rating code rating refer to:

6 - Dust Protected; Totally protected against dust ingress.; complete protection against contact
7 - Immersion Protected; Protected against short periods of immersion in water.Ingress of water in harmful quantity shall not be possible when the enclosure is immersed in water under defined conditions of pressure and time (up to 1 m of submersion). Test duration: 30 minutes; Immersion at depth of at least 1 m measured at bottom of device, and at least 15 cm measured at top of device

Understanding The IP67 Rating For Waterproof Cables And Connectors - SourceTech411

grolby

I don't know about you, but I need to replace shift cables at much more frequent intervals than I need to replace a group set.

flatlander_48

My point was just that it seems balancing a considerable amount of electronic complexity for a somewhat easier installation doesn't seem to be a good trade in my opinion.