Drummerboy1975

I've been riding a full carbon Fuji for three years now. I love the nice, soft, squishy ride, but that's the problme. I want something with more response. So, I'm looking at steel frames. Something with Columbus or Reynolds tubing. Something like an All City Mr. Pink or a Masi Gran Criteria.

Any suggestions or exspences?

Lazyass

How much are you looking to spend?

dtrain

I'd describe my steel bike (Reynolds) as a bit squishy compared to my carbon Fuji. Maybe you want alloy?

rpenmanparker 

OP, you've got something all turned around. Even moderately-priced carbon should be stiffer and more responsive than lightweight-to-normal steel. Fuji is not a technology leader in the industry these days, but their carbon frames should not be squishy by any description. Except with very uncomfortable, stiff aluminum or top-of-the-heap carbon like Trek Emonda, Specialized Tarmac, Giant TCR Advanced SL, etc. you shouldn't be able to do much better than you have. Don't confuse riding comfort with lack of response.

Campag4life

Carbon is much more responsive than any steel frame. I think you meant springy. The modulus of elasticity is pretty much the same for all steel frames independent of alloy. What can vary is the thickness and diameter of the tubes and the geometry of the bike which will influence stiffness and weight. Higher strength steel will allow a frame to be build lighter for the same strength level of lower grades of steel.

Lazyass

The OP has a steel bike. He's not asking if steel rides stiffer than his carbon bike, he apparently has experience to compare.

Campag4life

I didn't say any steel bike rides stiffer than a carbon bike. I really don't care if he has a steel bike. I have owned 30 steel road bikes. How bout you? What he wrote was wrong and I explained why.
I figured talking about moments of inertia which is the basis for why a steel bike can never be stiffer than a carbon bike in the lateral plane without weighing more than a Cadillac would go over his and likely your head.

Drummerboy1975

No, I have a carbon Fuji CCR2, and an aluminum Bianchi Via Nirone 7. The Bianchi feels more springy as someone put it.

I did a local big tour ride today, 70 miles. I've ridden it before, the bikes super comfy, it just feels soft... Does that make sense?

I had a 1992 Cannondale and it was super fast. When you put the pedal down, it flew. My bike just feels like I loose torque. Maybe it's the BB design?

And no, not all carbon bikes are as stuff as the next. One of my riding buddies has an Orbea that's super stiff. My Fuji, not so much. I rode a Lemond Zurich the other day, Reynolds tubing, so stiff it would beat ya to death.

Drummerboy1975

How is what I wrote wrong? I have had steel, aluminum and carbon. I even has Bianchi Pista. Stiff as farm truck. Like I said above, not all carbon frames are the same. And I didn't say that all carbon frames are squishy, I said MY carbon frame is squishy.

But who cares, this post isn't about carbon frame comparisons. I just want input on new steel frame. Who's pasting out what, pros and cons of the different bikes and such.

As for a dollar amount, I can't afford a Peggoreti but I'd like something decent.

rpenmanparker 

If OP want stiff and responsive steel, he needs very oversized tubing. The tube types he mentions just serve to make steel more flexible (as a frame, not as the alloy itself) by allowing thinner walls as @Campag4life said. One needs to increase tube diameter to overcome the thin-wall flexibility. But no matter all that, OP's description of his Fuji sounds terribly inaccurate, once again I say it is like he is confusing comfort with lack of responsiveness. OP, ride a top Tarmac or Giant TCR Advanced SL or the new Trek Emonda. You will observe response that steel cannot match. Nothing squishy there.

Campag4life

Why don't you ride your Bianchi if you believe it feels better.
Nobody here is going to make any suggestion about what bike you should get to fit your qualitative definition of 'springy'.
Most of the top level carbon bikes and certainly different genres of carbon bikes have different ride quality. Same with even AL and steel bikes.
Only way to figure out what you want is to ride one and then buy it. Ordering custom is also a lottery...hit or miss in terms of whether you will love it or not.

Lazyass

I wasn't talking to you and stop trying to impress me with your history of bikes. I can't remember all I've had in 28 years. The OP asked a specific question. If you won't answer it, leave or something. Thanks.

iab

I have a 2009 Cinelli xcr, made from Columbus xcr. Like it. Like it a lot.

_MG_8967 by iabisdb, on Flickr

chaadster

Hmm, this is a strange paradigm the OP has set up here, and I would say, without wading into the which is stiffer discussion, that just based on what he's saying, I get that he want's a ride that's responsive to pedal input. Fine.

I don't know anything about the Fuji CCR2, but as has been said, I'd also expect it to be sufficiently responsive. That it is not makes me wonder if perhaps the wheels are under tensioned or something like that?

As for new steel, I ride a '12 Breezer Venturi, which is probably as modern as steel frames get. I'd describe it as very stiff and very racy handling. I can't induce any discernible flex from the frame, and I'm a strong, aggressive Clyde.

That said, I've ridden bikes that felt different, as in more harsh, but I don't know if they were necessarily faster; I mention this to draw attention to the characteristics of frame materials. In my mind, an alu Cannondale, for example, will always feel different from a carbon Fuji or steel Breezer, but that's not to say it's necessarily stiffer. It could be the perception of speed and road feel through the frame rather the fact of more direct power transfer translating to marked speed increase. Know what I mean?

bikemig 

If you're looking for something that is relatively inexpensive, soma bikes are pretty sweet (I ride my doublecross a lot) and most of their bikes are made out of tange prestige tubing. Plus you have a lot of choices in terms of road bikes.

rpenmanparker 

Actually I do. That's very similar to what I was saying about confusing comfort with lack of responsiveness. (Take note: we agree! Ta-da! )

Lazyass

Ignore that dude. He told me I was "very wrong" for installing my BB30 bearings with grease (as FSA recommends) rather than locktite Back to the subject: The Masi is a very nice bike. Lugged, steel fork and 105 for $1300

https://www.eriksbikeshop.com/MASI-20...3YRoC3_vw_wcB#

chaadster

Doh my god, that's tres dope!

Is the seat clamp integrated into the seat stays?! Dopeness.

Oh my god. That looks like a real rider's machine. Dope.

chaadster

Haha! C'mon, now...one little tiff and it's all down the drain?! We've often agreed, man!

rpenmanparker 

LOL. In fact just to show no hard feelings, I will even agree with that last statement. But don't expect flowers and candy!

Drummerboy1975

I have a set of H Plus Son 32H Archetypes Ultagra hubs that where just retrude and retentioned.

Has any of you thought to look up the Fuji CCR2? CCR stands for Carbon Comfort Road. It's not that responsive. Guys, my ass has logged more miles on this bike that any of you....

Now, can we get back to steel bike suggestions....
I don't give a rats ass about carbon stiffness.

rpenmanparker 

The Ritchey Logic steel frame is truly excellent, but it is very comfortable, so you probably wouldn't want that. I'd go to Baum for something custom. After robbing a bank, of course.

Drummerboy1975

Really? Thank you for that value added reply.

chaadster

Here's the aforementioned Venturi. That in addition to the hydroformed tubes it's also post-weld heat treated, probably helps increase responsiveness a bit, as the tight geometry certainly does. Frames list for about $1k, but tremendous deals have popped up and may be available currently. Sub 19lb ready to roll as equipped.

rpenmanparker 

Seriously, the Ritchie Logic is an excellent, modern, steel frame. I have had the breakdown version, the Breakaway, and it was the best steel frame I have ever ridden. The Logic one-piece version is essentially the same. Tom just knows how to make a frame both ride well and feel good. And they are available for around $950 as a frame only at Bikewagon or very cheaply built up by Adrenaline. With a great Ritchey fork included. I know I saw one a few weeks ago for under $800, but I can't find that offer now. Sorry if my humor attempts didn't resonate with you.