3alarmer 

...I was thinking that it was probably just received in payment from a tweeker for a drug deal, so perfectly innocent.

rms13

Can we get back to how the seller knows the wheels are custom built by NYC Velo if it's not his bike? Seems like nothing is original. So this could be a 2nd or 3rd hand frame that is 3-4 years old with a hodge podge of used parts. Maybe he's on a race team and the frame was a retired race frame that he got for free and built up with used parts taken off other crashed race bikes. Who knows what the real story is? $500 might truly be a fair price for that bike or maybe it would go for $800-1000 on ebay and someone got a good deal cause the seller didn't want to deal with hassles.

WhyFi

A good deal more than the retail of the bike. I worked in sales in Manhattan and had a number of wealthy clients. Some were penny pinchers, but many were pretty generous. One of my clients actually gave me a PowerTap - maybe I should have asked for the receipt, showed up at his door and tried to take an etching of the s/n to send to authorities.

rms13

By the way, a guy I know that is sponsored on a race team sold a full Red groupset to someone for $400 off his previous season't bike. I think he sold a set of Zipp wheels to someone else for about $400. So if you are in the right place at the right time you can find some deals especially from people that didn't pay for stuff in the first place. I definitely think that when a deal looks too good to be true it usually is but once in a while it's just a good deal.

PhotoJoe 

MOD NOTE: Racism will never be tolerated on BF. Comment and subsequent fallout has been deleted.

FBinNY 

Then he's still be the owner.

I know you were being facetious, but I want to hammer this home.

Someone in possession of personal property is the owner and owes no explanation of any kind to anybody, except to rebut another credible claim of ownership. Does the OP, or anyone here, really expect that people need to retain and produce on demand any kind of proof of ownership.

What next, will someone knock on my door and ask me to prove I paid for this laptop?

headloss 

Personally, I'd call the police and ask to talk to a detective. You know where this guy lives. It's good info for a follow up. From what I've seen, most current thieves already have a criminal record so if nothing else, it lets the local police know that one of their old friends is currently active. It's worthless info as far as evidence, but it's a useful lead if this guy is dealing stolen property and this wasn't a one-off case.

3alarmer 

FBinNY 

Fortunately my house doesn't have a garage.

3alarmer 

...Gotham City sleeps more soundly tonight.

t3c9

Seems like an enormous waste of personal time to no end.

WhyFi

You and the OP should go in to business together. I bet the police would love it.

headloss 

Snarky, snark snark snark. Maybe you should open up your own advice column?

Fortunately, I'm capable of ignoring bad advice given by some random jerk on the interwebz, seeing as I've previously given tips to the police which have resulted in the arrest of a bicycle thief.

RJM

This^^^^^

Even if I kept all my receipts, I wouldn't show them to a stranger. Burden is on the other person to show that I stole a bike.

WhyFi

lulz - isn't that a feather in your cap?

Being a witness to/victim of a crime is one thing, but no police officer is going to appreciate taking a call that consists of "through deductive reasoning, namely the fact that he was selling a ______ under market value and that he was nervous about meeting a stranger via Craigslist, I have concluded that this person is a criminal! Go knock their door down!"

It's delusional.

headloss 

You would show them to a potential buyer of your bike if they wanted to verify you were the owner though? I think the point of the OP has been lost (that, or I'm the one misunderstanding). No one needs to prove ownership of a bike, or a computer, or whatever to a stranger... but it's certainly legit to ask a seller for proof of ownership before something exchanges hands. It's certainly within the rights of a potential buyer to know that they aren't receiving stolen property.

headloss 

I think it's case-by-case. Either way, we are talking a fifteen minute phone call which will either a) be ignored or b) yield a potential suspect. Police can't crack cases without tips and obviously some tips are more useful than others. I don't think any of us are on a position to judge. I don't personally think that the OP was over reacting... it's not like he tried to run off with the bike or anything; granted he may have stayed longer than he should have at the apartment complex (but I'm also assuming that the story was somewhat exaggerated).

To be absolutely clear, I support contacting the police... not confronting the possible thief (unless the bike was my own or a friend's, which is a different scenario).

RJM

I would say no, I don't have proof. That's a legit answer. If they don't want to buy it then, they don't buy it.

WhyFi

And? It's also within the rights of a seller to sell to who they want to. The OP was a jackass from the get-go and even admits that he walked in to the meeting "[not] even thinking about buying anymore. I was trying to figure out how to get him arrested." The OP keeps talking about the "vibe" that he got from the guy, what about the "vibe" that the OP himself gave off? I wouldn't want to deal with him, either, 'specially if I know that I'm giving someone a good deal. **** that noise - I'll pass and give it to someone that appreciates it more.

3alarmer 

...

WhyFi

This isn't Mayberry - it's NYC. Detectives have plenty of credible stuff to work rather than waste time with self-appointed super sleuths grasping at straws. There is NO credible evidence. None.

FBinNY 

Yes, a buyer is 100% within his rights in asking for proof of ownership. And if I were suspicious about the legitimacy of the sale, I'd walk away. Bit that's a Long (very long) way from calling the seller a thief, or believing that I or the police can demand to see the serial number based on the suspicion that the bike may be stolen.

If the OP had called the police, they would have asked him how he knew, it was stolen -- was it his bike, did he recognize it somehow as belonging to a friend, or what? Just saying the price is suspiciously low, and the seller wouldn't show me a bill of sale, or let me see the serial number wouldn't cut it. For sure not in NYC, probably not in Mayberry either.

WhyFi

Mayberry jinx!

headloss 

So you are selling a bike on CL, and I come to take a look and ask for proof of ownership (assuming that you have it, obviously, not everyone saves receipts)... you would say no based on the principle that you don't have to? I'm sure you'd show it if you have it. But, yeah, ultimately the potential buyer has the right to walk away (end of story).

Which brings us back to the scenario as explained by the OP. The guy provides what are apparently obviously fabricated receipts? Maybe they weren't obvious fabrications, I don't know without seeing them myself. I can't judge that legitimacy of the OP's experience nor am I trying to. If the seller did take the time to fabricate receipts in addition to selling a bike at a suspicious price, I think that is enough to pass on the info to the police.

On the other hand, calling the actual bike shop seems over the top to me. In fact, if the receipt was fabricated, why would the suspected-thief bother to list an actual shop in the first place.
The other thing that makes me doubt the OP's suspicion is that thieves don't typically invite you to their apartment complex to look at an item.

3alarmer 

....
....this topic used to come up pretty regularly in the C+V, where many bicycles have changed hands numerous times over the years.

There are still people who regularly chime in about never buying stolen bicycles. They are sometimes the same guys who talk about great finds at yard sales.


The few sane people remaining in there pretty much accept that if you own 40 or 50 older high end bikes, at least a few of them were probably stolen somewhere along the line, you just try not to buy them from the actual guy who stole it, if you can. Bikes have been a hot commodity in the world of thievery ever since the first go 'round at the turn of the 19th Century.