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Level or sloping top tube on large frames

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Level or sloping top tube on large frames

Old 11-17-14, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
it all depends on how it looks nekid. My last 2 road bikes have been clearcoated carbon, so I'd like some color, but probably not the whole frameset.

I was thinking about going with Enve for the stem, post, and bars, but damn those are expensive. Even with OEM pricing, I can afford them.

Which BB design is best? I know BB-30 is out of the question, but what about the other ones?
You ride with Ultegra crank don't you? Get the BB86 threaded then. Or maybe PF86 press fit? I'm still reading complaints that even press fit creak. But if you have to go wider with press fit, PF86, it's compatible with Shimano cranks. Tolerances for PF86 aren't as bad as BB90 and other press fit standards.

If threaded BB86 is good enough for Pinarello F8, it's good enough, unless you think you require stiffer and lighter than Froume?
- PF86 allows for wider chainstay, maybe bigger tires?

Last edited by zymphad; 11-17-14 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 11-17-14, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tony2v
My Moots Compact and Alchemy Xanthus both have a 6 degree slope. I requested the 6 degrees on the Alchemy so that it matches the slope of the Ritchey stem.
What are the angles of your stem and head tube?
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Old 11-17-14, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
That one is Ray Allen's(formerly of the Celtics), but I like the green paint too.
My favorite bike paint scheme of all time was as simple as could be: emerald green metallic ("malachite") on a standard-tube, lugged steel frame. Pure red decals on down and seat tubes. Nuff said.
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Old 11-17-14, 07:47 AM
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BB30 can perform flawlessly, but hey it's only in my personal experience, and after all...what do I know. If it hasn't worked for you personally, then I can understand one's reluctance. But I do not believe the widespread use of the BB30 to be another bike industry conspiracy to fleece the consumer. If it was me, I'd get the BB that had the most visible logos....
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Old 11-17-14, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by gc3
BB30 can perform flawlessly, but hey it's only in my personal experience, and after all...what do I know. If it hasn't worked for you personally, then I can understand one's reluctance. But I do not believe the widespread use of the BB30 to be another bike industry conspiracy to fleece the consumer. If it was me, I'd get the BB that had the most visible logos....
I have never owned a BB-30, but have fixed many creaky ones for customers, and they do require more maintainence than a Hollowtech II BB.
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Old 11-17-14, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gc3
BB30 can perform flawlessly, but hey it's only in my personal experience, and after all...what do I know. If it hasn't worked for you personally, then I can understand one's reluctance. But I do not believe the widespread use of the BB30 to be another bike industry conspiracy to fleece the consumer. If it was me, I'd get the BB that had the most visible logos....
It is a shame that FSA cranks don't have greater appeal. Their BB386EVO system is really quite attractive, working with just about any BB. I have two of them now mounted on BSA BBs. I think they're great. 30 mm diameter aluminum spindle is lighter and stiffer than my old 24 mm steel ones, and they don't rust like the steel ones did. Not as light as the shorter 30 mm spindles that fit BB30 and PF30 exclusively, but I can live with that.
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Old 11-17-14, 10:06 AM
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I doubt Shimano is sticking to 24mm steel spindle because it's as inferior to 30mm AL spindle as FSA would like us to think. Especially since many of the top racers are doing just as well riding Dura-Ace cranks as those riding FSA/SRAM with 30mm spindle. Certainly won't affect me if 24mm isn't limiting Froume/Wiggins.

But if for some reason they ever do change the spindle dimension and materials, still won't matter to me, I'll continue to buy their components, not FSA. They only way for me to not to buy Shimano crank would be if Campagnolo gives up the thumb shifter and maybe give campy a try instead.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
It is a shame that FSA cranks don't have greater appeal. Their BB386EVO system is really quite attractive, working with just about any BB. I have two of them now mounted on BSA BBs. I think they're great. 30 mm diameter aluminum spindle is lighter and stiffer than my old 24 mm steel ones, and they don't rust like the steel ones did. Not as light as the shorter 30 mm spindles that fit BB30 and PF30 exclusively, but I can live with that.

Last edited by zymphad; 11-17-14 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 11-17-14, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
I have never owned a BB-30, but have fixed many creaky ones for customers, and they do require more maintainence than a Hollowtech II BB.
Is possible that other BB types can also creak, though?

Right now, I have one bike with BB30 and another English threaded. Both seem to work well. Both bikes did have creaks at one point that had to be diagnosed, but they weren't BB-related at the end of the day. I'm no wrench, though, so my opinion is worth less than $0.02.

Personally, I've never met an idea I couldn't dismiss with contempt prior to investigation. That's why I feel at home on the 41.

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Old 11-17-14, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gc3
Is possibe that other BB types can also creak, though?

Right now, I have one bike with BB30 and another English threaded. Both seem to work well. Both bikes did have creaks at one point that had to be diagnosed, but they weren't BB-related at the end of the day. I'm no wrench, though, so my opinion is worth less than $0.02.
the creaking BB-30 is easy to fix, I just don't like the fact that it requires as much maintainence as it does. The builder may have some thoughts on which BB he wants to build around as well. I'm using 6800 cranks now, but I like the idea of having other options. Maybe BB-386evo would be a good option.
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Old 11-17-14, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
the creaking BB-30 is easy to fix, I just don't like the fact that it requires as much maintainence as it does. The builder may have some thoughts on which BB he wants to build around as well. I'm using 6800 cranks now, but I like the idea of having other options. Maybe BB-386evo would be a good option.
Yeah, but it doesn't dictate the BB shell choice since it works with just about all of them. Might as well just go with a threaded shell and forget about the pressing problems (ha ha pun).
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Old 11-17-14, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Yeah, but it doesn't dictate the BB shell choice since it works with just about all of them. Might as well just go with a threaded shell and forget about the pressing problems (ha ha pun).
I forgot that BB-386 is a spindle size. I haven't looked into eccentric BBs, but it would be nice to have a BB shell that accepts one at a later date.
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Old 11-17-14, 11:52 PM
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all these press fit bb are such a load of bull. the shimano outboard hollowtech thingy is never a problem so why go for something less widely used that requires more work and is more problematic. solution looking for a problem.
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Old 11-18-14, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tony2v
My Moots Compact and Alchemy Xanthus both have a 6 degree slope. I requested the 6 degrees on the Alchemy so that it matches the slope of the Ritchey stem.
The slope of a 6 degree stem flipped down is 10-13 degrees from horisontal, depending on the head tube angle. Flipped up, the slope is even larger, of course.
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Old 11-18-14, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by coasting
all these press fit bb are such a load of bull. the shimano outboard hollowtech thingy is never a problem so why go for something less widely used that requires more work and is more problematic. solution looking for a problem.
I agree. After looking at eccentric BBs I saw there are a few available for threaded BB shells.
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Old 11-18-14, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by coasting
all these press fit bb are such a load of bull. the shimano outboard hollowtech thingy is never a problem so why go for something less widely used that requires more work and is more problematic. solution looking for a problem.
No argument with that. But the 86 mm wide, oversize diameter Al spindle is kind of nice. That's why I like the BB386EVO pushed through threaded-in cups on a BSA shell. The 30 mm spindle just fits in the standard shell with the oversize cups. Neat.
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Old 11-18-14, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
No argument with that. But the 86 mm wide, oversize diameter Al spindle is kind of nice. That's why I like the BB386EVO pushed through threaded-in cups on a BSA shell. The 30 mm spindle just fits in the standard shell with the oversize cups. Neat.
Also neat is the fact that I can get FSA at OEM cost.
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Old 11-18-14, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
Also neat is the fact that I can get FSA at OEM cost.
Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 11-18-14, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
the creaking BB-30 is easy to fix, I just don't like the fact that it requires as much maintenance as it does.
LOL it doesn't require much maintenance. Unless I got a super special one.
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Old 11-18-14, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
LOL it doesn't require much maintenance. Unless I got a super special one.
The Hollowtech II BB requires nearly no maintainence, and lasts far longer than the BB-30.
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Old 11-18-14, 09:22 AM
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Why does a threaded outboard BB last longer than a pressed in one if the bearings are essentially the same? Say in a metal bottom bracket, wouldn't the pressed in bearing cartridges be essentially identical in environment to the cartridges pressed into the outboard cup? Of course except for the BB386EVO cups, the bearing diameter is smaller in the threaded outboard setup than in the pressed setup. But I don't see how that would matter. A carbon BB shell is a different matter in terms of tolerances, I suppose.
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Old 11-18-14, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Why does a threaded outboard BB last longer than a pressed in one if the bearings are essentially the same? Say in a metal bottom bracket, wouldn't the pressed in bearing cartridges be essentially identical in environment to the cartridges pressed into the outboard cup? Of course except for the BB386EVO cups, the bearing diameter is smaller in the threaded outboard setup than in the pressed setup. But I don't see how that would matter. A carbon BB shell is a different matter in terms of tolerances, I suppose.
I really have no idea why BB30s require the maintenance they do, or why the bearings need to be replaced as often as they do.

I rarely see problems with Hollowtech II BBs, but frequently need to replace BB30 bearings or silence a creaky one.
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Old 11-18-14, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
I really have no idea why BB30s require the maintenance they do, or why the bearings need to be replaced as often as they do.

I rarely see problems with Hollowtech II BBs, but frequently need to replace BB30 bearings or silence a creaky one.
Yeah, I'm not talking about creaking, but rather the bearing life. But since you mention it, why don't cartridge bearings creak in a Hollowtech cup like they do in the BB shell? Is it because the tolerances on the cup are so much tighter than the shell? Or because the cup is more robust and "gives" less than the shell?
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Old 11-18-14, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
The Hollowtech II BB requires nearly no maintainence, and lasts far longer than the BB-30.
I've had/have both. Will soon hit 5000 miles on the original BB30 bearings. Regreased the bearings at @3K miles and that took 10 minutes. To me, that's virtually no maintenance. If the crank bolt is properly torqued then there no no reason on this earth they should wear out fast. However, if it's too tight it's easy to see how they would wear out. No, BB30 requires no more maintenance, IF one knows what they're doing.
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Old 11-18-14, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
I've had/have both. Will soon hit 5000 miles on the original BB30 bearings. Regreased the bearings at @3K miles and that took 10 minutes. To me, that's virtually no maintenance. If the crank bolt is properly torqued then there no no reason on this earth they should wear out fast. However, if it's too tight it's easy to see how they would wear out. No, BB30 requires no more maintenance, IF one knows what they're doing.

well that there is the rub. hoolowtech takes no maintenance even if one knows nada.
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Old 11-18-14, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
I've had/have both. Will soon hit 5000 miles on the original BB30 bearings. Regreased the bearings at @3K miles and that took 10 minutes. To me, that's virtually no maintenance. If the crank bolt is properly torqued then there no no reason on this earth they should wear out fast. However, if it's too tight it's easy to see how they would wear out. No, BB30 requires no more maintenance, IF one knows what they're doing.
I ride 14-15k miles a year, and other than cleaning the outside of a Hollowtech II BB, I've never had a problem it. It had over 70k maintenance free miles when I retired that bike, and was still smooth and silent.
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