gregjones

Concentrate on things that make a real difference on the road. The rider being the first, and main, area of concern.

If a rider beats you on an 11 speed bike, he could probably just as well beat you on a 10 speed----a 2X5 at that.

BoSoxYacht

I don't think that was a point anyone was making.

I enjoy riding my old 2x5 Colnago, and it never holds me back on flat solo rides, but I think it would be tough to be competitive in a criterium race against riders on bikes with "brifters".

EdwardNJ203

Thank you guys for all of the good info! I feel better now, I guess the cassette and the chain will be the first thing I would have to replace, and according to you guys it should not be a problem to find them. Also, I can get a 11 speed wheel with a spacer, to be future proof, that's good, I did not know that either.

But like Brian mentioned, crashing in a race is not unusual, specially in triathlons. So, worst case scenario, if I crash and I need new shiftters and one of the derailleurs, would it be that expensive to switch the components to 11 speed? I am just wondering because I have no idea. Including labor, how much would it cost to "upgrade" to a 11 speed system (105 or Ultegra) within the next two years? (or once this 10 speed parts become harder to find at a reasonable price)

roccobike

So how much longer until 12 speed is available?

Nachoman

Chain Reaction Cycles. There were other deals out there too, but they were out of my preferred gear ratio.

Fred Smedley

You say that like it is a bad thing.

Dave Mayer

I ride mostly 7-speed systems. With brifters (Campagnolo Ergopower). Most of my cogsets go from 13-28, a adequately wide range that dispenses of the useless 11 and 12 tooth cogs found in current cassettes.

I have run this system with a 34 tooth 'bail-out' cog during an ugly hill climbing day.

So with 7-speed, I have both the gear range that I need, plus the convenience of integrated brake/shift levers. The shifting works just as well as on my 10-speed bikes, thank you very much.

While riding, I don't have to waste time with double gear changes as with 10 or 11 speed cogsets. The gear increments on these are too close.

Finally, since I'm running 7-speed I don't have to spend absurd amounts on replacement chains and cassettes and rings. I have several lifetimes worth of replacement cogs which were sourced for about a dollar per pound.

So what were your arguments?

tony2v

Back in the day, I would have LOVED a 53x39. I was suffering with a 53x42!

BoSoxYacht

what is absurd about $25 for a chain?

Do you still use a 15 year old computer?

In an earlier post you said it was $180 for the chainrings, but I've found the full crankset for $172.

You really aren't a very smart shopper.

ThermionicScott 

Not 105, more like Sora or non-series level. For whatever that's worth.

LesterOfPuppets

I was on 42x23 low gear 'til 1999 or so. If you're under 30 you really shouldn't be running wussy gears lower than that

Alias530

Were you sitting and spinning 42x23 on climbs? There's climbs around here I can't clear on 34x28 if I sit and spin (and mountain bike climbs I can't clear on 30x36). I'm 6'6" 240lbs so I'll never be a strong climber but still.

LesterOfPuppets

Oh hell, no. I was stomping on the pedals and cursing profusely! Good training for youngsters! They gotta learn that life isn't fair.

LesterOfPuppets

Universal says 9sp hg50 is Tiagra, 8sp hg50 is Sora, but they don't put a group name on the 7sp. I think I'd call it RSX. Maybe they don't quote that cuz the group isn't around anymore.

CenturionIM

Uh, no thanks. Help yourself tho.

Bandera

This bike was built 53/42 w/ the lowest gearing 13-23. 20 years on converted to 10 cog 53/39 13-25 for the same terrain in the Hill Country.
Works fine for me, it's got the low I need for the routes it's ridden on and biggest gear I'm willing to push with tight steps in between for efficiency.

The "Junior" 13-25 10 cog cassettes are going to get hard to find and expensive, I stashed one away.
Has "Junior" gearing appeared in 11 cog? A 13-28 would go well on some really steep stuff locally.

-Bandera

JamesInSJ

FWIW, as I have a friend who works at a national parts distributor to many LBS'es, the offshore (i.e. Europe) prices without any taxes/shipping are often BELOW what the LBS pays for most parts. Even after his employee discount (nearing zero margin) the distributor's prices were higher than many Shimano items on Ribble, Wiggle, CRC. All of my shipments from Ribble have been delivered in the USA by USPS Express Int'l, with no hit by customs, so definitely stayed under US-based pricing.

Brian Ratliff

Why are you here? 7 speed is over 20 years old. Isn't there a forum for those favoring older equipment?

20 years ago, 7 speed was the sh|t and the latest and greatest and the "improvement" over 6 speed. Why aren't you on 6 speed freewheels still? Or 5 speed? Or hell, just go with fixed? Dare I suggest a penny farthing? Back before the turn of the century, there was some guy, another Dave Mayer, who sat in a coffee shop or bar railing about the dangers of chains on the new fangled safety bikes. Retrogrouch-ism is just not a rational life perspective because its perspective is totally dependent on the age of the person grouching. Today's retrogrouches were yesterday's visionaries being retrogrouched at by yesterday's retrogrouches. Someone in the early 90s was grouching about the introduction of 7 speed. Mark my words. Meanwhile, Shimano keeps making cool stuff and people keep being happy riding progressively "better" bicycles.

Everyone thinks the things that were cool when they were in their prime are the greatest ever things and every "improvement" deserves to be in quotations. It's a moving target. Most outgrow it after a little introspection. Some don't and we call these people retrogrouches.

LesterOfPuppets

True, but besides the electronic stuff, brifter shifting hasn't really noticeably better since the 1999 RSX 7-speed. In fact, I'd rather have them than some of the lowend 9-speed brifters that came after. Especially those Shimano thumb button brifters.

tony2v

And doing the same cursing with toe clips, but with double straps (Alfredo Binda Extra straps!). Of course on a lightweight (21 lb) steel Paramount

BoSoxYacht

I've owned RSX shifters but trust me, perforfmance has improved.

LesterOfPuppets

Hmmm. I have 9-speed Ultegra and 105, and don't feel any better than ye olde 7sp RSX. Maybe I need to turn it up to 11.

And the plastic Madonna bra dealies are kinda lame compared to the cyclops look of the RSX, IMO. I have a cyclops style 105 set somewhere, I think they're 8-sp, tho.

BoSoxYacht

I like the look of 6800 levers, and the feel/performance is great. I borrowed a friend's Super Record bike for a week when I was thinking about buying Chorus, but didn't really like the feel of the levers.

6800 brakes are fantastic. I had 7800 brakes on my previous road bike, and liked them very much, but these feel even better.

Dave Mayer

Excellent post; I intend to use it in a class I am giving on logic and clear thinking. So much material in a few short sentences.

To summarize, you've indicated that old things automatically are less functional or than new. What does this say about the diamond shape bicycle frame that has dominated for the last 150 years? Out with the old, I guess.
You've also confused the various elements of functionality. Some new things are useful, others are pure marketing. So for your future reference, here are the developments in the bicycle world that are real progress, and also what is marketing crap:

Real progress:

• Brifters (integrated brake/shift levers)
• Dual pivot rim brakes
• Carbon
• Cassette hubs
• 8+ speed internal gear hub systems
• Compact road drivetrains

Marketing crap:

• Compact (sloping top tube) road framesets
• Disc brakes for the road
• Adding another cog to the cassette every few years so we can charge hideous prices to early adopters for new stuff and so that naive fools are convinced to 'upgrade' when their current equipment is perfectly good.

Wesley36

In the bike industry, things rarely go obsolete, they just move down-market when new stuff comes in.