Rim brake vs Disc Brake Aero test.
12-13-14, 12:32 AM
#151
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Yes, because it's all one giant conspiracy and when the product hits the sales floor no one is going to notice...
12-13-14, 01:59 AM
#153
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So now that has been made clear are you going to try to go the spam route or alterier motive route?
12-13-14, 08:32 AM
#155
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you gotta admit the test was "rushed". These guys at spesch have their own tunnel and some really smart guys working for them, I expect a little more .. I don't mind disk brakes actually... it just means I will totally have to weight weenie my bike in other areas (spend more money) to make up the weight difference.
12-13-14, 09:51 AM
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Nice try, but you still fail.
12-13-14, 09:58 AM
#157
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12-13-14, 11:47 AM
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Full disclosure, we make rims and rotors already but I hope we can improve on the aero properties of both the rotors and calipers. Thats a long term project. And we don't sell wheels.
So now that has been made clear are you going to try to go the spam route or alterier motive route?
So now that has been made clear are you going to try to go the spam route or alterier motive route?
Last edited by bt; 12-13-14 at 12:07 PM.
12-13-14, 12:13 PM
#159
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DT Swiss - RC 38 Spline T db
Clincher at 1455:
DT Swiss - RC 38 Spline C db
...^^^and tubeless compatible.
ENVE 3.4 spec:
SPECS
[TABLE="class: enve_specs_table, width: 409"]
[TR]
[TH][/TH]
[TH="width: 15%"]FRONT[/TH]
[TH="width: 15%"]REAR[/TH]
[TH="width: 15%"]SET[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Depth[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Width[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Hole Count[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]ERD[/TD]
[TD]584[/TD]
[TD]564[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Finish[/TD]
[TD]UNI[/TD]
[TD]UNI[/TD]
[TD]UNI[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Weight: Rim Only[/TD]
[TD]400[/TD]
[TD]415[/TD]
[TD]815[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Weight: King R45[/TD]
[TD]687.6[/TD]
[TD]817.6[/TD]
[TD]1505[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: enve-data-title"]Weight: DT 240[/TD]
[TD]660.6[/TD]
[TD]799.6[/TD]
[TD]1460[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Last edited by UnfilteredDregs; 12-13-14 at 12:28 PM.
12-13-14, 12:58 PM
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enve's most expensive carbon road fork (1.0) weight = 295gms.
enve's disk specific carbon road fork weight = 435gms.
enve's carbon clincher (ses 3.4) = 458gms (front) 465 gms (rear)
enve's disc specific carbon clincher (ses 3.4 disc) weight = 400gms (front) 415gms (rear)
all prices are in the neighborhood of an arm and a leg.
i've found other disc road type forks and a few disc specific rims. and whereas a disc specific fork usually involves more material and hence more weight, IME, a disc specific rim usually has less material and less weight than it's non-disc counterpart.
i will be looking at road calipers and rotors as regards weight, and at levers with a mount suitable for an MTB handlebar. i'm not concerned about the aero aspects, i don't believe them to be significant even with the current MTB offerings.
to modify just my front caliper to a disc and take advantage of any weight savings, i figure it will involve 1) a new fork, 2) a entire front wheel, and 3) a new lever and caliper. if i had to buy it from enve (god forbid!), and use an XTR hydraulic brake it would set me back about 2000. i think i'll hold off a while... but i sincerely dislike the braking on my carbon tubular front rim with dura-ace caliper.
enve's disk specific carbon road fork weight = 435gms.
enve's carbon clincher (ses 3.4) = 458gms (front) 465 gms (rear)
enve's disc specific carbon clincher (ses 3.4 disc) weight = 400gms (front) 415gms (rear)
all prices are in the neighborhood of an arm and a leg.
i've found other disc road type forks and a few disc specific rims. and whereas a disc specific fork usually involves more material and hence more weight, IME, a disc specific rim usually has less material and less weight than it's non-disc counterpart.
i will be looking at road calipers and rotors as regards weight, and at levers with a mount suitable for an MTB handlebar. i'm not concerned about the aero aspects, i don't believe them to be significant even with the current MTB offerings.
to modify just my front caliper to a disc and take advantage of any weight savings, i figure it will involve 1) a new fork, 2) a entire front wheel, and 3) a new lever and caliper. if i had to buy it from enve (god forbid!), and use an XTR hydraulic brake it would set me back about 2000. i think i'll hold off a while... but i sincerely dislike the braking on my carbon tubular front rim with dura-ace caliper.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 12-13-14 at 01:30 PM.
12-13-14, 02:22 PM
#161
Mr. Dopolina
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you gotta admit the test was "rushed". These guys at spesch have their own tunnel and some really smart guys working for them, I expect a little more .. I don't mind disk brakes actually... it just means I will totally have to weight weenie my bike in other areas (spend more money) to make up the weight difference.
As I mentioned in the second post in the thread I had some problems with this test but was encouraged by the initial indicators. Better data is already on its way to publication.
12-13-14, 02:27 PM
#162
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You should change your user name from Jiggles to Gibberish.
Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 12-13-14 at 03:40 PM.
12-13-14, 03:33 PM
#163
Senior Member
LOL,
I can't believe the arguments have devolved into gram counting!
Road bikes overall performance is what's important, and counting grams is ridiculous.
Disc bikes will easily STILL be under the UCI weight limit, and still be plenty light for the highest level of performance.
To argue grams and possible aero disadvantages, yet completely ignore that a disc bike will blow away caliper bikes on descents, rain and simply make riding safer is laughable.
And once again, there are CHOICES. It's not an either/or. It's a CHOICE. So why hate having choices? Doesn't make sense at all.
I can't believe the arguments have devolved into gram counting!
Road bikes overall performance is what's important, and counting grams is ridiculous.
Disc bikes will easily STILL be under the UCI weight limit, and still be plenty light for the highest level of performance.
To argue grams and possible aero disadvantages, yet completely ignore that a disc bike will blow away caliper bikes on descents, rain and simply make riding safer is laughable.
And once again, there are CHOICES. It's not an either/or. It's a CHOICE. So why hate having choices? Doesn't make sense at all.
12-13-14, 04:38 PM
#166
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Road bikes overall performance is what's important, and counting grams is ridiculous.
Disc bikes will easily STILL be under the UCI weight limit, and still be plenty light for the highest level of performance.
To argue grams and possible aero disadvantages, yet completely ignore that a disc bike will blow away caliper bikes on descents, rain and simply make riding safer is laughable.
12-13-14, 05:59 PM
#167
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Oh, here's one. American Classic mag clincher, 300 grams. That is claimed; but so are his weights.
MAGNESIUM|CLINCHER
MAGNESIUM|CLINCHER
12-13-14, 06:02 PM
#168
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Yet I post facts, while you can't remember if your own rims are 405g or 410g claimed. Probably come out 440 actual. Or as you get customers to do your beta testing for you, slowly creep up the material mass to increase durability. This happens all the time with small vendor stuff that is pushing the cutting edge.
12-13-14, 06:10 PM
#170
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those of us whom don't want road discs can sit back and watch the guinea pigs sort it out.
broken steerers
broken triangles
boiling fluids
glazed pads
squalling
bent rotors
busted hubs
air bubbles
etc.
broken steerers
broken triangles
boiling fluids
glazed pads
squalling
bent rotors
busted hubs
air bubbles
etc.
12-13-14, 06:25 PM
#171
Senior Member
The few that have a say, will at least try new technologies.
If they choose not to ride it, than that's their CHOICE.
I bet all the pros see road disc as another tool at their disposal.
If the UCI allows it, they will use disc where they see it as an advantage, and caliper where they see it as an advantage.
If the UCI mandates uniformity, then it's a moot argument: pros ride what they are told to ride.
Spartacus rides mechanical Dura Ace. That's his choice. He doesn't like Di2.
What does that mean for the bike market? Jack Shoot.
Because people will still buy Di2 and people that don't like it will buy mechanical groupsets.
Same goes for road disc.
12-13-14, 06:49 PM
#172
Senior Member
ok.
but... it really didn't sound like a compliment. Are you talking about the bike racer dude? Because I am pretty sure I can outsprint him.
but... it really didn't sound like a compliment. Are you talking about the bike racer dude? Because I am pretty sure I can outsprint him.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-13-14, 06:50 PM
#173
Senior Member
You sound really sure of yourself.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-13-14, 06:52 PM
#174
Senior Member
Oh, here's one. American Classic mag clincher, 300 grams. That is claimed; but so are his weights.
MAGNESIUM|CLINCHER
MAGNESIUM|CLINCHER
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 12-13-14 at 06:58 PM.
12-13-14, 06:53 PM
#175
Senior Member
You sound really sure of yourself. Good thing nobody is forcing you to ride this stuff.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter