fa63

I have been riding a Seven Elium with Campy Record (10 speed) for a little over a year now; did a review of it here:

Cog Blog: Seven Elium Race (SLX) review

In short, I think it is a great bike and it is hard to go wrong with Seven. That said, if I was doing it today I think I would go with Ultegra Di2 myself. As much as I like Campy, I like Di2 better. Granted, my experience with Di2 is limited to a couple test rides but nonetheless, I think Shimano has done a great job with electronic shifting.

As far as wheels, I would go for a custom set built with HED Ardennes Plus rims / White Industries T11 hubs and call it good. If you want a factory wheelset, I would go for a set of Shimano Dura Ace C24.

For the finishing kit, I am a big fan of Ritchey; they offer a wide selection, great quality and IMO good prices.

I vote for no paint; polished titanium looks good and is easy to maintain.

Good luck.

Spiduhman

"for me" as in done by someone else more expert than I; ten months and all them miles later, the wheels are still perfect.

rpenmanparker 

Aha! My mistake. Just a slight misunderstanding.

RollCNY

OP, congrats on being in a position in your cancer struggle to look forward. Good on you.

Just an opinion, but I think you are starting backwards priority wise, or I misunderstood your first post. You talked about hydraulic disc brakes being important, and I took it that one of the cons against Campagnolo was their lack of innovation in that area. And that is a fairly true statement. Campagnolo systems are built around short reach road caliper brakes, and if you want something different, then options start to dwindle. Even long reach road brake choices get harder with them, so good fender clearance starts to get to be a problem. Decide on what braking you want from there.

Once you get braking decided, get a wheel builder to build you wheels. The process of selecting custom wheels is an absolute ball, and every wheel I have had built has been the result of an hour of conversation with a good builder. In my experience, dream wheels are far more fun than dream bikes, because they are build portable.

Shimano vs Campagnolo groups should be entirely based on comfort, and little else. All of the modern mechanical groups shift brilliantly, from Sora and Veloce on up. But what is going to feel the most comfortable for your hands should be the only factor.

Finally, on frames, I can only offer opinion. Buy a custom frame if your body geometry warrants it. Buy a stock frame if your body geometry can accommodate it. I have a friend who rode a custom Seven, and had a jersey, and raved about it. He then got a deal on two Lynskey's, one stock and one custom, and the Seven was never ridden again. The stock Lynskey was his favorite ride. Then he took a ride on a Colnago CLX (I think) carbon, and sold all of the Ti. All I am saying is that there is no guarantee that your dream bike will be your dream bike forever.

kbarch

Your entire reply was great, I thought, but this part really struck a chord. I don't know if it's what you meant, but I think it's not just simple ergonomics of shape that matters. For instance, it would be silly of me to say that Ultegra doesn't work as well as Athena, but what I never liked about Shimano was the way the brake levers flop around like the down (to smaller cog or chainwheel) levers. Not that it matters; they work fine, but I just don't like them; they feel stupid. I don't like the way they are manipulated. On the other hand, I LOVE the "drop-the-hammer" button on the Campy shifter; it just makes sense to me. I also like the way SRAM is tap to let the chain down, and PUSH to push the chain up.

Bah Humbug

This might be a roadie vs tri geek thing, but the one person I've met with Lightweights finds them completely underwhelming.

Stucky

Oh, Shimano has the latest and greatest technology? Who the hell cares, unless having state-of-the-art frills is a recipe for having your dream bike?!

Personally, I'm missing down-tube shifters. Seriously- thiese clicky-clacky brifters just aren't the same as the quick positive direct connection of DTs.

Get the components YOU want!

nycbianchi

Well for what it's worth I think I've finalized my choices:
- seven axiom sl frame
- enve fork
- Campy mechanical gruppo
- Mavic ksyrium sls
- Thomson stem and seatpost
- zipp sl-70 ergo handlebars
Kinda going with a classic theme. Except the enve fork but that thing is just sweet.

OP

StanSeven

Good choices. Keep us posted of the progress and build photos

zatopek

Sounds really sweet to me. Let us know how it goes and make sure you post lots of pics once she's up and running.

Shuffleman

That all sounds great, especially the fact that you are "above the dirt".
This is massively fun project. I told myself a similar thing after I was dealing with a prolonged injury. It took my mind off the injury and was quite fun buying all the parts for the bike. I envisioned the bike and simply bought each part over the course of about 6 months. I set my budget and got every single part that I wanted on sale. The research and the waiting for a part to hit my target range was really fun. People say all the time that it is cheaper to buy a complete bike than to build it out but I blew that notion out of the water.
I agree with you on Campagnolo. I do not find them to be behind at all but I am not into electronic or disc brakes. I switched to it for the reason that you mentioned and I absolutely love it. Shimano is great too so either way you go, it will be fine.
I am excited to see the bike when you are done, so please post pics.
Great story.

bruce19

The last time I had Campy was back in the '80's and it was Athena friction. I was not aware that you had to use only Campy chains these days. BTW I didn't give up on Campy. I just have bought bikes that came with Shimano or SRAM. If I were to build my "dream bike" it would have Campy.

Congrats for still being with us. None of us know when the end will come so just get what you want and enjoy every moment.

fa63

You don't have to. KMC make Campy chains as well (and Wipperman, if you are using 10-speed).

bruce19

It didn't sound right to me but as I say I haven't used Campy for a long time. According to the OP the LBS said:

"However, the local Seven retailer (a very high-end bike shop) really, really pushed me towards Shimano and specifically the Di2. They acknowledged that Campy is beautiful, but made the argument that:
-- Campy is falling further and further behind on technology
-- It's always going to be hard to find Campy parts but if your chain breaks anyone has a Shimano chain"

If my LBS was offering misleading info like this I'd be going somewhere else.

knobster

Have you ever ridden a Ti framed bike? If not, before spending all that money, you might want to ride one. Might not be as dreamy as you expect. I do like the naked Ti though. I don't have any decals on my Moots.

fa63

I see; I didn't see OP's post. I suppose there is some merit to what they are saying as far as Campy parts not being as easily available as Shimano, but that personally wouldn't contribute to my decision making. These days, an online retailer can get a chain delivered to your door in a day if the LBS doesn't have it in stock. But I agree it sounds like they were trying to steer the customer's decision by exaggerating a bit.

fa63

I like the build list, except the wheelset. I would suggest considering a Campagnolo wheelset instead, perhaps the Zonda or Eurus.

Like this:



(More pictures of this bike here)

RogueRadio

IF its your Dream bike, and you like Campy, get campy. But personally I am a Shimano enthusiast. IMO there is no major aesthetic differences, and shimano shifts soooooo much smoother (again, IMO, not looking for a Campy v. others debate). Di2 is also amazingly quick, and yes I have rarely seen shops in my area at least carry campy components or replacement parts.

nycbianchi

FA63 - I'd love more detail on why you recommend the Campy wheels over the Mavics. I have been really torn between them. My main concern with the Campys is the spokes - the low spoke count doesn't seem "bombproof" as they say, and the aesthetics kind of freak me out. The Mavics seem to have a nice balance between racing and training styling. I've looked at the Fulcrums (obviously same as Campy) which have less crazy spokes but their decals are just fugly.

None of this is particularly technical or data-driven. Curious if you have more constructive advice.

(Beautiful bike by the way.)

OP

nycbianchi

One more question from the OP: should I go for a fat, 44mm head tube? More modern look and better handling? Or some reason not to?

pdedes

Look at the soul 3.0 wheelset.

fa63

Having used both Mavic and Campy wheels, here is my take:

- Campy have some of the smoothest hubs in the business (they are cone and cup hubs vs. somewhat poorly sealed cartridge bearings you find in Mavics).
- They are very durable, despite the low spoke count. I weigh 220-225 lbs, and I haven't had to touch my Zonda wheels once in over two years of riding. That said, if you break a spoke or something, your local shop is very unlikely to have a replacement in stock, so it makes sense to buy some online and keep them handy.
- I have set almost all of my fastest times on Campy Zondas (vs. Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL and various handbuilts I own/have owned). They also tested very well in the wind tunnel from a test several years back (unlike the Mavic).
- I like the 2:1 spoke pattern, both in looks (of course that is subjective) and from a technical perspective.

Don't get me wrong; I am not suggesting the Mavic are bad wheels but I just think the Campy are better. Plus you can get them for a great price if you look online a little (especially the UK retailers).

By the way, the decals on the Fulcrums are removable.

I would ask Seven for their opinion. I have the straight 1 1/8" fork on my Seven Elium, and find the front end to be plenty stiff (Serotta F3 fork), despite being a larger rider. I also prefer the aesthetics of the skinnier 1 1/8" head tube, but again that is personal.

195cranky

I have bought factory oem frames. I have had built custom alu and alu lugged/carbon tube frames. Here is what I have learned. If you want the one to end all frame for ever and for everything get in your mind the best of the best. That will be your one bike and enjoy it. I have done that before. That same bike ended up being a winter/beater bike. The next new latest greatest was the new go to bike. Rinse, repeat.

What works for me now is having a fleet of custom built frame/bikes and wheels. A climbing bike with light wheels, a flat roller bike with deeper rims, a crit racing disposable alu bike, a TT bike with deep rims and disc rear. Always have a back-up bike. Always clean, always ready to go. If one cracks or breaks and is out of commission, no problem, have many more bikes to use. But these custom frames are inexpensive and made by local builders. So for the same cost of a high end, high cost, high marketed frame and bike I can have and use a couple different ones. Tools, not just a jewel.

As to gruppos...simple...Campy. Only Campy except for the garbage SRAM on TT bike. And in Campy EPS - I have learned Athena and now Chorus is just as good and a lot less pricey compared to Record or Super Record. Mechanical - Chorus just as good as R or SR. Simple. Keep costs down, maybe a bit heavier, same performance, maybe less Ti or Carbon, maybe not as purty but works awesome in EPS or mech. But I have fleet of bikes and keeping costs down to Chorus level on EPS and mech makes it that much more palatable. The SR or Record I have doesn't make me any faster or stronger or better on the bike. May look better if you are into that. Tools not jewels. Made to be ridden often and hard. I race crits on alu frame, Chorus mech 11s, and $500 tubeless clincher wheels. It goes fast, is stiff, and I may not cry when it goes boom. Tool not a jewel.

Not sure this helps in this case but may shed light to a different perspective of matching need to equipment and maybe quantity over quality. Still get from point A to point B but the initial outlay is way less and the eventual outlay on a fleet comes out about the same as one super nice jewel showpiece.

nycbianchi

Hmm ... I guess I am not done. Have been talking with the LBS about "disc-proofing" the bike so that I have the option of adding Campy disc brakes one day when they figure those out. I intend to keep this bike for the rest of my life and -- though I agree with 195cranky at a fundamental level -- I like flexibility and I like tinkering with my bikes.
So if I go with a 135mm rear hub spacing what does that mean for my wheels? The LBS really, really wants to build me custom wheels, and that might be the right answer, but I'm confused how it works, and I'm afraid their bias is not helping me understand the options. Can I get some pre-built wheels with 135m hubs? How do I know which ones -- they don't seem to be well-marked. Or can I just put in any wheels (e.g. the Ksyriums) and deal with the 5m with washers?

Note I cross-posted this in the frame-builders forum but haven't gotten much constructive advice yet.

OP

nycbianchi

PS -- Yes I know I'll have to get a new front fork if I upgrade the brakes. Fine with that.