softreset

I have a TI-82 graphing calculator that has worked like a champ (new batteries every 6 months) since my Mom bought it for me when I went to HS (in 1996).

I worked for a paintball marker manufacturer (WDP) from 1999-2002 and our electronic market (Angel LCD) is still being used by countless players across the world.

I have dozen or so other electronics in my house that are definitely 10+ years old but they're all what I consider to be "simple machines." That being said, I repurposed an older Windows 3.1 computer to act as a glorified type writer at a Convent in 2003. I recently visited them and sure enough, they use it everyday. Mind you, it took about 20 minutes to fire up.

This is all anecdotal, though. I think the oldest computer I've owned in the last 10 years was maybe 2 years old at the time I upgraded. But most of that has been out of demand and all of them were repurposed or donate where I'm sure many of them are still used/appreciated.

Given the 'complexity' of Di2, I like to think of the system like my TI-82, in that it'll working great until one day it just fails (due to any number of electronic-based failures). The part that scares me (from a cost of ownership perspective) is the fact that I'm purposely exposing my parts to the very contaminates that are known to cause problems with electronics (dust, dirt, moisture/water).

GlennR

This sounds like the debate on my car forum of points vs electronic replacements.

Points are cheap, reliable but need periodic maint to keep running right. And when they start to fail, they give you a warning. Unless you ignore the warning signs you'll never be stuck on the side of the road.

Electronic replacements are more expensive and don't need to be touched once setup. But when they fail, they just drop dead and you're walking home.

I've put 474,000 miles on my VW with points and never had a problem.

roadwarrior

No, it doesn't. Geez

SRAM electronic is being ridden at Tour Down Under.

cellery

You're probably right - I think we can excuse things like a cyclo computer which needn't work 100% of the time to ride the bike. I can see a lot more R&D going into something critical like shifting. So we hope. It would definitly be a slick and slight setup if it's dependable. My concern comes from the fact that there are proven RF dead areas -for the right frequencies, in fairly small geographic areas that people ride through - like the Emergency responder antennas I mentioned. It would suck to have your shift go out for 200-500 or more feet because of that. I don't know how SRAM can test for something so variable.

andr0id

When I think about all the times my GPS has stopped working or failed to pick signals from the sensors because of power lines or whatever, I would not really want to give up shifting that often.

But mechanical isn't perfect either. Somebody broke a RD cable on a ride with a lot of hills a few weeks ago and his life sucked. Luckily, he had a triple and put it on the granny in front.

The thing is that I can maintain my mechanical system and if i replace cables annually, it is very unlikely they will break in my central TX climate.
If my wireless just decides to stop working on some road with a big powerline, I can't do anything about it.

RNAV

I think it's reasonable to agree that situations like what you've described aren't normal. Just like if, despite routine cable replacement, you break a cable anyways. Or get a flat. There are solutions to those problems: replace the cable, install a new tube, or suck it up buttercup and you'll be out of the interference area soon enough.

I can't speak for overseas, but here in the states the FCC has very specific policies, controls, and enforcement procedures for EMI (electro-magnetic interference). Whatever Sram's communication protocol is, since it's wireless, they're subject to FCC regs . . . which also means Sram is able to gather data from the FCC about what signals are prolific throughout the US that could cause interference, and Sram can design their system around those things.

Of course, everything we're saying here is all speculation until one of us gets their hands on this group.

Campag4life

Actually RNAV, anybody who has ever owned a bike computer or Garmin and ridden through the city knows about EMI interference. Its a real issue and likely the biggest obstacle Sram faces with their WiFi groupset. But this is no doubt high on their priority list and hopefully won't be an issue overall when released.

jaxgtr

I have not come across EMI interference on any of the Garmin's I've owned, but I did have issues with my Polar CS200cad. Drove me nuts which is why I moved to Garmin.

Mithrandir

As a computer engineer, that statement made me literally LOL.

Good one.

dalava

On my commute everyday, I pass a pretty powerful cell tower, and every once in a while, the Garmin will show my heart rate is over 500% of my HR max. But hey, but I am still alive to tell the tale

Mithrandir

I have. The worst offender seems to be heartrate, it'll have spikes up to 300 occasionally. Well I know that can't be right because then I'd be dead. But there will be those weird times where your speed gets reported weirdly. I was riding along today and suddenly it says I'm doing 50, when I'm clearly at 12 or 13.

I'd hate for my shifter to interpret EM interference as a signal to shift up when I'm climbing a tough hill. For that matter, I'd hate it if someone were playing a joke on me (or a pro sabotaging a competitor) when the protocol is inevitably deciphered and we discover that the first generation didn't bother to include strong encryption on the signal (you know it'll happen, it always does).

RNAV

Well, GPS and WiFi are two entirely different animals. GPS is an extremely weak signal, roughly -125 dBm, whereas most WiFi signals are around -40 to -70 dBm -- multiple times stronger than GPS. GPS is so weak, it's incredibly easy for EMI to be a player. A WiFi signal, or any other RF that has to travel inches to its receiver is going to be significantly more robust, and much more difficult to interfere with than a GPS signal.

rpenmanparker 

I didn't mean by accident. I meant by hard work, you know, the way your products do.

igosolo

Maybe if SRAM changed their mechanicals to shift like Shimano and not the goofy way they adopted ......I would never buy a bike with SRAM unless I planned to strip it down and sell the components. Now electronic, who knows different animal altogether.

rpenmanparker 

Shimano's two shift lever system with the floating brake lever just plain sucks. Always has. Always will. SRAM's single shift lever system is brilliant. Best upgrade I ever made was from Ultegra to Red.

Campag4life

And the debate will never end. I feel the same way. I don't like Shimano's shifting method or their hood ergos.
But Robert, you should build a Campy bike for fun. Campy makes the most refined shifters in terms of feel and are so intuitive when competing.

rpenmanparker 

Well, I can't say that doesn't have some appeal. I do think you suggestion is worth a look although I have to admit I am focused forward on wireless electronic. I am in a lull right now and will watch and learn for a while. Who knows. I may just get that old Campy bug.

garysol1 

Shimano sucks? It sure seems to work just fine for the MAJORITY of riders out there. I like SRAM just fine but to say Shimano's design sucks is just silly.

GlennR

I totally agree. Shimano works great, I just like Sram better.

Ford vs Chevy
Dino vs synthetic oil
23mm vs 25mm

Taste's Great vs Less Filling

People who say "xxx" sucks, are clueless and closed minded.

rpenmanparker 

Don't be obtuse. Posters shouldn't have to include the disclaimer "IMO" in order for readers to understand that what they say is meant that way, a personal opinion. Why would you expect me to post the opinion of the "MAJORITY of riders" rather than my own? When I write something here that is subjective, not fact-driven, it is only what I think, pure and simple. Oh, and I am not alone complaining about the floating brake lever. You have to remember that the majority of the "MAJORITY of riders" have never used anything else but Shimano. How would they know what is better and what is worse.

And besides, what's wrong with being silly? It is a source of great joy to those that embrace it.

rpenmanparker 

I choose to believe you are just being ironic. I would hate to think you can't see the similarity between your absolutism and mine.

GlennR

There are no absolutes, so there is a middle ground.

I just wish the weather was warmer so I can go ride.

rpenmanparker 

Waiting for the rain to stop.

GlennR

Currently it's 31* outside.

Most likely will wait til March.

rpenmanparker 

Can we both agree? Now THAT sucks!