sirkoondog

Hi all,

First time poster.

I have a dilemma here. I purchases a new marin road bike (Marin Bikes | Ravenna A6 2300 WFG | Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, and City/Commuter Bicycles | us) for the wife 3 years ago. It was a starter road bike costing less than $700 USD. 3 years later, we are still riding most weekends and will be doing our 1st century this summer. She hates the triple crank, so much so that she stays on the middle cog 99% of the time. So this winter, I am looking at a couple of options.

1. I can replace the entire group with shimano 105 5800 for $500 + labor. I think I might also need to get new wheels to go along with the groupset. All-in, the cost of this upgrade looks to hover around $1000. But I'll be able to get the specific parts I think will work best. 11-32, 52/36 165mm crank, or 11-28,50/34

2. I looked at the giant/liv avail advanced 2 for about $2000+tax and the cannondale evo 105 for $2300+tax. The LBS carries both brands but does not have these bikes in stock. For the Giant bike, I am not really sold on disc brakes. I have read a TON of different opinions and I have no idea where I stand. We use standard brakes and it has worked fine so far.

With both options, it would be her last bike for quite awhile. We are weekend riders only in good weather, ie. no rain.

So what would you do?

dtrain

IMO, 3550 or 4650 group from the UK - or new bike. Frameset and wheels trump groupset in terms of importance...so don't have the group be (by far) the nicest of the three major parts. In fact, you could probably just get a compact crank and BB...but she needs to drive this decision as well.

rms13

If you shop around on some of the UK sites you can get 5800 for $350-380 with free shipping.

Shimano 105 5800 11 Speed Groupset Black OEM | Merlin Cycles

11 speed wheels can be had as low as $115

Shimano RS11 Road Wheels - Pair | Merlin Cycles

or Ultegra wheels for $321

Shimano Ultegra 6800 11 Speed Wheels - Pair | Merlin Cycles

Or Fulcrum Racing 3 which are good enough for most people's use for $405

Fulcrum Racing 3 Wheels | Merlin Cycles

If you do the work yourself you might need to spend $30-50 in specialized tools depending on what you have already. Or pay the shop which may be $150 labor

dtrain

^ is the frameset worthy of that kind of investment?

rms13

Your asking the wrong guy. I bought a 25 year old bike that is worth about $250 and upgraded everything to modern components. I love the frame so it was worth it to me.

If OP's wife loves the bike it might be worth dropping $5-600 into. One other thing is that prices OP quoted for new options are off. The price for Giant is msrp and the Cannondale is over msrp so I would at least negotiate or shop around if those are quoted prices from LBS

mcours2006

If you think the frameset is worth the investment then by all means I think it's worthwhile to upgrade the group, especially if the bike fits her well. It'd certainly be cheaper than buying new.

mbw

I just went through this with my Trek 1500 from 2006. You can find my thread if you want. The bike isn't worth a huge amount, but im upgrading it rather than getting something new. I like my frameset and fork.

I bought the 105 5800 set from merlin. 34/50 on the front and I went for the 11-32 cog on the back (hilly where I live) with the medium cage rear der. Also bought the Ultegra wheelset from merlin. I've got grip gels, some leather grip wrap from handlebra. It's going to be a nice refresh.





Old triple vs new compact 11 speed.

dtrain

Merlin and Ribble also sell crankset/BB combos at very attractive prices. That's about all this bike might need. In fact, I'm not sure it needs anything. Sounds like what she actually hates is shifting the front...which you do less often by sticking with the middle of a triple. The front shifting of the 5800 group is quite nice, but she'll have to do more of it (and learn to 'counter' shift the rear).

I did the UK groupset thing too (so I understand). But my 5800 went on one of the redesigned carbon Synapse framesets - and my wheels were 11sp already.

GaIslander

Definitely new bike. There's nothing else you can do!!


Seriously, that frame is pretty dated. Score some hubby points and go new.

rms13

You even got the part in retail boxes! Mine were all OEM

rms13

Maybe. But going to a compact front and keeping the 12-25 cassette may be limiting and OP already stated they wanted compact with 11-32 cassette so I assume she needs lower climbing gears.

...but her current crankset is 50-39-30 and she doesn't want to use the 50 t ring now so what will make her use it with a compact? If the problem is front shifting not gearing, maybe bike just needs a tune up

dtrain

Tune-up - exactly what I'm thinking. Front derailleur adjustment for the rare times she needs it (rather than gearing change). 39t is better than a 34t or 36t for hanging out in most of the time. Compacts require much more front shifting (and shifts are a larger cadence jump).

Then again, the 'get your wife a new bike' argument holds a lot of sway.

Black wallnut 

BS! The only difference is a slightly different speed range per given cadence between the two. With a 10 (or 11) speed you don't want to go small small or big big but you can, so even then you have 9 speeds per ring compared to 8 with a triple. With 11 speed you have 10 speeds per ring. The differences in cassettes is at the extremes, not the middle. An 11-28 11 speed has the same 10 cogs as a 10 speed 12-28. 11 Speed adds an 11 cog.

When I have looked at this
to decide what cassette to buy it is clear that the differences are at the extremes, not in the middle of the cassette for 10 speed. For 8 and 9 speed there are more varieties of combinations.

dtrain

Your BS meter is off a bit. Rear/cassette spacing (and 8/9 vs. 10/11) is not what I was talking about at all. I'm talking about the large 16t difference between 50 and 34 front rings - compared to the 50-39-30 where many of us would just sit in the 39t like the OP's wife apparently does. With a compact, I'm shifting the front quite often (and having to 'counter' shift the rear by a couple gears to stay anywhere close to the same cadence). Sometimes I think, geez a ring in between these two would be kinda nice (ack - triple!).

Shuffleman

If she likes the frame than go to ribble or Merlin and purchase the groupset. Even if you need new rims, it is a less expensive proposition. You should be able to recoup some money by selling your wheels and groupset on eBay.

Drew Eckhardt 

I look at it differently.

Is it worth spending another $1500 (or more - you don't need a crankset or brakes) to get a new frame that's functionally the same?

I don't think so, and have just added newer parts as things wore out and bike replacement cost at the same quality level rose from $2000, through $3000, past $4000.

$300 to move from 8 to 9 cogs (Campagnolo index cams can be swapped, although I needed two freehubs), or $2500 for a new bike? Save the $2200, or perhaps $1200 if I sold what I had.

$600 to move from 9 to 10 cogs (That took new shifters and rear derailleur to accommodate the ratio change) or $4000 for a new bike? Save the $3400, or perhaps $2500 if I sold what I had.

Drew Eckhardt 

I shifted my front derailleur at least 10X more often when I rode a compact. With a tight cassette, the 50 doesn't go slow enough or 34 fast enough.

Pairing 50-34 with 13-23 9 cogs and eschewing the noisy fully cross-chained combinations I was shifting from big to small when my speed dropped below 17 MPH, then back to the big ring at 19 MPH which happens a lot on roads that aren't dead flat.

When I did that I was making five cog changes which are simultaneous thumb shoves moving to the small ring on Campagnolo (50x21 -> 34x15) and simultaneous front lever wiggles with a repeat on the right going the other way (34x14 to 50x19). I'd have gone nuts if I was riding some other brand shifting to the small ring

CLICK-RELEASE-click-release-click-release-click-release-click-release

With a 39 ring I just use it unless I'm going to cruise over 20 MPH, and usually have a much better chainline.

When you can spin 39x whatever produces one tooth jumps through the 19 starting with your preferred cog up most hills and manage the rest you can just run a standard double (ex - 39x11-19, 12-21, or 13-23 9 cogs; 11-21, 12-23, or 13-25/26 10 cogs; 11-23 or 12-25 11 cogs) and avoid an accidental shift to the small ring. 46-36x12-25 11 cogs would be OK too if 36x25 is sufficient. Otherwise the triple is least bad.

Stucky

Wait, I'm having trouble grasping this. What is it about the triple that your wife doesn't like; and why can't she just avoid shifting into whatever ring she doesn't like?

Putting over $1000 into an entry-level bike just doesn't make sense. She will not notice any difference in that bike with a new crank and groupset vs. what she has now.

If for some reason which I can't fathom, the triple must go, buy a new or used crank, and a used double shifter to match your right-side shifter, and make the bike a double (You can still use the triple derailer, essentially making it a double by adjusting the limit screws)- cost: Anywhere from $75-$150- and that is all I would put into that bike. Otherwise, sell that bike and take the $1000 you were going to put into it, and buy a nice new or used bike that she will like.

If she dislikes the triple because it doesn't shift well, it merely needs a simple adjustment. A triple- even the lowly Sora one which was on my first road bike, can shift as well as anything else. I had never even ridden a bike with brifters before- much less worked on one- but when I got that bike and had to assemble it, after a couple of Youtube videos, and playing around with the limit scrws and cable tension for about 45 minutes, I had that baby shifting perfectly before my first ride on that bike...and there's no reason you can't do the same, if that is the issue your wife is having with the triple.

sirkoondog

[QUOTE=Stucky;17601370]Wait, I'm having trouble grasping this. What is it about the triple that your wife doesn't like; and why can't she just avoid shifting into whatever ring she doesn't like?

Putting over $1000 into an entry-level bike just doesn't make sense. She will not notice any difference in that bike with a new crank and groupset vs. what she has now.

/QUOTE]

The LBS can never get the triple to shift cleanly. Even after a tuneup, the front shifters are just too tight to shift. it take some force to get the gears to from high to low. the wife's thumb just doesn't have the strength to shift. the LBS can't get it to work correctly. ( I went to 2 different shops!) So she basically stopped using it. I hate to say it, but she also gets confused on the triple. Always seems to mix it up. She loves the frame and it fits her well, but I don't think she will know the difference. She is fine with the weight and can carry it up/down stairs with no issues. Would love to get her a full carbon frame,

I am shocked that the shops in UK for the 105's are so much cheaper. Cheapest i found in the states is ~$500USD. Anyone have experience getting it shipped to the states?

Went to the LBS today after work today and spoke to a salesperson. Since these are the latest models and they have to order it, they won't be able to give much of a discount on the avail-adv-2. 1900+tax. They all suggested that I get a new bike and forget about upgrading.

If I do get a new bike, I might consider the Jamis. For 2k, it has a full carbon frame and all the same components. 1st world problems...

basically, it comes down to is the new frameset worth an extra 1000. time to sleep on it. thanks all

Stucky

Have you considered getting her a nice used bike? You can really get a NICE bike for what you'd pay for that new one- I got my '13 Venge for less than that. She'd definitely notice if she went to something like that. If you're gonna spend the money, make it count- or else, as I mentioned above, just change the crank and shifter on her current bike- personally, that's what I'd do.

I'm a little leery of those shops-I mean, they can't get the bike to shift right- but they can't tell you what's wrong with it? It's likely something simple- about the worst it could be is a bad shifter- or more likely, one which is gummed-up and just needs a little cleaning and lubing. Or a cable which is frayed where you can't see it. I'd try taking the bike to yet another shop, and see if they can't fix it- it's likely a cheap fix.

It's really ridiculous that an LBS can't fix, or even identify what the problem is, on such a simple machine.

Drew Eckhardt 

I order from the UK all the time because the Campagnolo markup here in the states is even more severe than with Shimano. It takes about as long to get things in California from the UK (Ribble, Shiny Bikes) as it does the US East Coast (Niagara).

topflightpro

If she is happy on the bike except for the shifting, then just go with the 105 compact set up. Triples generally do not shift well, so switching to a compact set up is a good idea.

Another factor to consider is: Is you wife not shifting the front as much because she cannot physically do it? Many women have smaller hands and have trouble pushing the shift lever to the full extent to actually shift the front derailleur. (My wife actually had that issue.)

If that is the case, going to Shimano 105 may not help much, as the lever throw is still quite long. You'd be better off looking at Sram, which has a bit shorter lever throw, or Shimano Di2. I know Di2 is an expensive upgrade, but it is hugely popular among women with smaller hands.

Juan Foote

Although I can't argue with any excuse to buy a new bike or new goodies for one.....

Why do you think that swapping to a double is suddenly going to get her to start using the front shifter? There is no real functional difference if she doesn't use the small ring....
I have found that my wife has a habit of using nothing but the small ring. With the 8 sp rear as well as the three speed internal she just doesn't take the time to mess with it.

sirkoondog

That is a very good point that I didn't think about. She is 5'3 and does have small hands. Had to get shims to reduce the reach on the brake levers. Instead of dropping 2k on a new giant, I can use that $$ for a Ultegra Di2 groupset. There is a sale at merlin for just over $1k, plus new wheels at 300ish and labor around 250, total cost should be under 2k. I am missing any other costs? Its not the best of framesets, but she is very comfortable on it. Does anyone know if there would be any issues installing the Di2 on this frame? I would assume most LBS wouldn't care that I purchased my gear online.

I think the Di2 is the way to go. it would really make her riding 1000x better.

Lazyass

Screw Di2. Put the bike on CL and get the wife something like this.

Fuji Supreme 3.0 LE Women's Road Bike - 2015 Performance Exclusive

Fuji Supreme 2.3 Road Bike - 2015

Fuji Supreme 2.1 C Women's Road Bike - 2014