Lars Halstrom

The fork uses a 15mm thru axle and the rear uses a 9mm QR skewer. The carbon models have a 15mm TA fork and a 135x12mm rear TA. Why not use the standard 142x12mm rear TA? Aren't the benefits of rotor alignment and stiffness of TA's needed for the Smartweld's rear axle as well?

isberg

Pretty easy answer: product differentiation -- if you want TA on both wheels you have to spend some more coin on the carbon model. There's probably some practicality in it too, in that there's probably only 2 basic frame molds -- one for all AL models and one for all Carbon models. If the Smartweld was a different frame from the other AL models it would need its own special mold.

Lars Halstrom

Smartweld is welded differently than the A1 model and has E5 aluminum. The rear junctions of chainstay and seatstay are different from the carbon models, as are the hangers. Maybe Specialized thought thru axles wouldn't change much stiffness in the rear axle. Here is a video of what the product manager, Chris Wehan, had to say why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbdXp6p6kXA

isberg

Lars -- Well, stupid board rules prevent me from replying to your PM. I won't quote your message but here's my reply:

Hi Lars,

I got the Comp Carbon and had the LBS upgrade to a full Ultegra drivetrain. I've not yet been able to get it on the road -- still too damn cold here. Hopefully in a week or two, but it could be end of March knowing the weather here; really itching to get on the road.

I've not really noticed anything that I'd change for trainer setup but one thing I did notice is the new Shimano 785 brifter hoods come un-hooked very easily, they don't flop around or anything, but they just do not like to stick in place. Seems to be a bad design, nothing Specsh can do though.

p.s. If any admin reads this, I understand the PM restriction for sending a NEW message, but if someone sends you a PM you should be able to reply! Stupid!

Lars Halstrom

Thanks for the reply isberg. That's irritating about the PM rules. I decided to ride 15 miles one way today over to Bellevue to a LBS and try another test ride on the Smartweld model. After one block the front derailleur wouldn't shift into the larger ring. This is the second bike shop that this has happened to me. The second time they worked on it, but it was really hard to move the brake lever to move it over. Maybe it was because it was new. But the comp carbon one shifted smoothly between both chainrings.

It may be cold up North in WI, but we've been having to mow grass already for 2 months.

Lars

jimc101

Because road axle standards are still un-decided. 9mm/15mm thru fronts looks to be being replaced with 12mm thru axles, for the rear who knows what will be standard in the next 12-24 months.

af2nr

Did you just like the color of the Comp better better than the Expert? I would have a hard time "upgrading" from the 105 to Ultegra for the price difference considering it's only the derailleurs and crank. The hydro brakes and shifters are the same on both. Hopefully you get to get it out on the road soon, it's a sweet bike!

isberg

While I do like the color of the Comp better, that was not the reason. The reason was that I require a 64cm frame and Specsh only offers that in the Comp (their website is wrong, Expert is NOT offered in 64cm -- confirmed with Spesch support in October and they still have not updated their website). I basically had the LBS turn a Comp into an Expert for me as Specialized will not specialize their models for their customers (and the irony seemed to be lost on them -- wish they had a program like Trek's Project One). Bonus: I have a slightly better Expert than Spesch offers.

isberg

Hmm, that's really odd the Smartweld has the same 105 drivetrain as the Comp right? I've read the new 5800 is supposed to shift just as good as the 6800.

I really hope the cold here breaks next week; for the past month we get 1 or 2 days above freezing and then 3-5 days below 0! Too much work to switch between trainer/road setup for just a few days. I'm waiting for a constant 40+ degrees before making the setup switch.

Cat2phat

I'm still having a hard time getting my heart started after seeing the price of the Diverge Comp ($2700) are you kidding me? Alez Comp (smartweld) with similar components minus the disc brakes ($1600) or the Diverge Elite with the A1 aluminum and disc brakes for ($1400). Is specialized trying to amortize their tooling over the first 100 diverge comps that they sell?

Lars Halstrom

Overpriced, yes. The Giant Revolt 0 ALUXX has Ultegra groupset for $2775.

isberg

For whatever reason, Specsh is going with high-end frames over gruppo for the Diverge Carbon/Smartweld diverge models. For Carbon they could have used a FACT 9r frame and gone full Ultegra on the Comp model. You are paying for a stronger/lighter frame instead of a better gruppo.

If Giant made a giant size frame I would have probably gone with a Defy Advance Pro 1.

af2nr

Wrong, the Comps, both Smartweld and Carbon, are 105 groups minus the Praxis Works cranks. Even the Expert isn't full Ultegra, it has FSA cranks. They all do have full hydraulic Shimano brake systems, 685 levers and 785 brakes on all 3. Although they aren't readily available the GT Grade is better spec'd and priced than any of the Diverge models.

Specialized Bicycle Components

isberg

Read my post again. I said Specialized chose a better frame over better gruppo. I know the Diverge Comp comes with a 105/Praxis, I said they could have gone with a lower grade FACT 9r frame and Ultegra -- but obviously they did not. And yeah the GT does seem better spec'd, but hard to compare their carbon layup to the FACT 10r to know which is a better frame.

Campag4life

and to add, it isn't just the lay up, its the design of the frame be it smart weld or carbon. The frame is the heart of the bike, not the groupset. Also the most important thing about any frame is the geometry and why for example I ride the Roubaix which shares identical geometry to the Diverge which will ultimately replace the aluminum Secteur I believe. I really ride the Roubaix more for it geometry than it being a superior frame in terms of other qualities. I don't feel a huge difference between the Roubaix and the Look I rode for 5 years previously. No difference in speed or even much in terms of ride quality. The Roubaix is a bit more stable bike handling wise but that can all be easily adjusted to. The Roubaix has a tall head tube which will get the handlebars up higher, more so than other bikes in its class. If this doesn't matter to you, then there are other bikes out there that will be just fine. Same applies to the Diverge.

I will say that I do believe Specialized frames to be the among the best...perhaps the best. I believe the design of Specialized frames are a result of the companies' commitment to R&D...no different than their saddles or even their shoes...but their frames and the decisions they make in terms of geometry and overall ride and handling to me, they nail the right mix.

I will also say that I believe as with Campy, the decisions that Specialized make relative to their designs are too nuanced for many to absorb who aren't focused on bike design. For example. The Tarmac and the Roubaix both use a standard 27.2mm seat post. This is deliberate and opens up a world of possibilities for riders including me who prefer an aftermarket seatpost with a particular setback. Many pro racers in the peloton who race for Specialized run a FSA seatpost and not the factory seat post...former being highly regarded and what I prefer. Then there is the front of the bike with graduated head tube. They nail the right balance of stiffness which provides just the right balance of ride quality and handling precision.

Then there is the BB. Here is where Specialized had to eat some crow. After years of trying to make their version of PF30 perform trouble free on their flagship S-works bikes, PF30 still being used on many bike brands today...or a derivative, for 2015 Spesh abandoned it. They mostly had to eat crow because in large part the BB is what separated their S-works frames from Pro and Expert models i.e. market differentiation which no longer exists which make the S-works frames excepting just a hint of carbon difference, less extraordinary. Bottom line is PF30 is more problematic than BB30 for reliability because there is an additional interface and dissimilar material to control. So S-works owners will accept this change happily.
So to me, Specialized does it better than others and really why I like their bikes.

af2nr

@isberg my bad, you would think that I would have picked up on that after reading and quoting it?! I agree with you guys that the Diverge frame in and of itself is great. After demoing one I was very impressed and it is still on my short list. However it falls short on some of the components compared to other bikes, especially for the price. For this sort of bike I think at minimum it should have some sort of tubeless ready wheels. Just using the Grade as an example again, it has full 105 or Ultegra, Stan's Grail wheels and almost $1000 less MSRP. I feel as though I keep trying to talk myself out of the Diverge, which is the only one available at this point...

isberg

Np, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

The GT Carbon Ultegra has a retail price of $3580. That's $420 less than the Diverge Ultegra Expert Carbon -- let's call it $600 less since the Diverge does not have an Ultegra crank. If we assume that the Diverge FACT 10r frame is a better carbon frame than the GT than you have to decide if you think that extra price for the better frame is worth it. That the 10r frame is better is probably a fair assumption given that 1) it's only one step below Specialized's ultimate 11r carbon frame and 2) GT bikes is relatively new to road bikes and from I've read new to high-end bikes in general. Though I have to say your Emonda SL6 is probably better than either the Diverge Expert or GT!

Campag4life

The Diverge shouldn't be compared to the Emonda. Either is better than the other when in its element.
Other factor is resale. Believe the resale of the Diverge will be much better than the GT which is relatively obscure. For guys who like to ride a bike 2-3 years and flip it, this matters as part of the buying choice.

af2nr

I agree, they are completely different tools! However, your point on resale makes sense and was something I hadn't thought about! Like I said I keep trying to talk myself out of the Diverge...

gsa103

GT hasn't yet figured out what they want to be. For a long-time they were essentially a house brand for Performance Bikes, with some going to Bikes Direct. Lately, it seems like they're trying to step up to be considered higher quality. I really like the GT Grade frame design, looks like they took a similar approach to the Emonda, with thin stays for flex to soften the ride. I would seriously consider it over the Diverge, because I think it stands a good chance of being a genuinely better riding trail bike.

SpecializedBus

Campag4life -
I just logged in solely for the purpose of saying that your observations, comments and opinions are spot on.
The more I read, the more I find myself muttering, "yeah, that's right!" under my breath.
Thank you for the well thought out and detailed answers.

BillinPA

I bought the Smartweld in December. i went with the smartweld because I wanted the components that it carried. The carbon model which cost $700 more has the same stuff so frame is the difference. I am not a carbon hater however after watching the smartweld video I was impressed. I am VERY IMPRESSED with the bike. It really is what I was looking for. Quick, smooth and able to withstand the less than nice roads I often ride.

Good luck with whatever you choose. LOTS of good bikes out there. What also makes it easy for me is my favorite dealer is a Specialized nut. Every bike I have ever ridden from there had spot-on setup. This makes buying the Spec. a easy choice