dr_lha

Bar mounting an Apple Watch has three issues:

1. Loss of HR monitor
2. Loss of "taptic" feedback (which people are suggesting for turn by turn directions)
3. Loss of motion detection: this means that it's main way of working, which is turning on when it detects that you're lifting your arm to look at it, no longer works.

For the last point, I'm fairly sure this is how Apple is getting a day out of the battery. No way this thing will last all day with the screen on all the time.

I'm sure someone will come up with a handlebar mount for the Apple Watch, but I don't think it's an intended use case for Apple Watch. Better to use something intended for that purpose.

RomansFiveEight

All good points! For sure.

Although, I still am not ditching my chest strap; even if I started using an Apple Watch. It's my understanding they are a lot more accurate, real-time, and reliable than optical heart rate sensors like you'll find on the Apple Watch.

Gonna be interesting to see, for sure. The most troubling statistic is "45 minutes of app usage". I understand that it will detect wrist up/down (but is it going to 'detect' bumps in the road too?); but I'm wondering just how long it's actually going to last. Another though, if I'm gonna pork down big money for an Apple Watch (and; full disclaimer; I just might. I want one. But the question is will I use it for cycling); then I want to use it all day. I don't want to go for a morning ride, go take a shower and get ready for work, and start the day with a dead watch! In that case, I'd probably leave the watch at home during a workout.

A final thought; sometimes bicycles don't stay upright. Sometimes bicyclists don't stay on their bicycles. How much is it going to suck to smash your $400+ Apple Watch on the pavement? Another advantage to a good bar mount, IMHO, is that it keeps the device off the ground. I pulled a 'bonehead move' the other day. Stepped right into a pothole and fell over at a stop like something out of the three stooges. Bike fell, I fell. Severely bruised pride, lacerated ego and at least 3 witnesses to make it all worse. But my bar-mounted RFLKT+ screen never touched the ground and my iPhone(s) were in a saddlebag safe and sound. (I prefer to keep my phone(s); both my 'main' phone and the one I use as my 'bike computer', in a saddlebag for the same reason. A little bit more padding and protection and won't pop out should I do something stupid or even wreck for real.)

dr_lha

I basically gave up on Apple for Cyclists after they promised that the iPhone 6 would "automatically" detect cycling for it's built in motion detector, and have failed to live up to that promise. This means that those of us trying to use the iPhone 6 as a pedometer are SOL, as it detects leg cadence as steps and up/down hill riding as "floors climbed".

dalava

that and the HR monitor

dalava

I've never heard this before. Are you sure this is an Apple thing or app developer thing? May be the accelerometer inside the iPhone is not good enough?

dr_lha

Here's a thread about it on Apple's discussion forum:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...rt=30&tstart=0

Basically when they announced the iPhone 6, Phil Schiller stood up and gave a talk about the M7 co-processor, and said how it's will "automatically detect if you're cycling". It does not.

The problem with this is for those of us using the iPhone as a Pedometer: most of the pedometer apps (e.g. Breeze, Fitbit, Apple's own "health" app), simply rely on the system count of walking activity. The problem with this is that when you're cycling it counts steps, so you'll see the number of steps you take and the floors climbed (assuming you're riding hills) shoot up for when you're cycling. Even if Healthkit knows you were cycling during that period (e.g. you use Strava), it doesn't filter out those false steps from the system.

So essentially for cyclists the iPhone 6's built in Pedometer is useless if you keep it in your jersey pocket while riding like I do.

RomansFiveEight

So, you can add "Cycling Miles" to the health app. It can then pull your miles from Strava. I can then look at my miles next to my steps. I average 7k steps a day and 8 miles on the bicycle. If I have less of one I need more of the other. With the Apple Watch; this isn't going to be so much 'guesswork' as they'll have improvements to the health app, in theory, to better chart out steps in relating to cycling distance. It won't be automatic though; even in the demo they showed intentionally 'starting' a cycling workout, the same way you would 'start' Strava.

I'll be curious to see the reviews when they're out.

dr_lha

You're missing my point I think. I already am adding "cycling miles" to the Health app, but that doesn't stop it counts pedalling as steps. This breaks any pedometer functionality, especially stuff like Fitbit where it's all about the number of steps you take in a day, funnily enough I always meet my 10,000 steps per day goal when I ride my bike for more than an hour! Yes, in the health app I can see the spikes and I guess I could subtract them out in my head, but the question is: why the hell doesn't the health app do this itself, and why aren't Apple actually living up to their promise that the iPhone 6 will automatically know that you are cycling vs running/walking?

Seattle Forrest

Worst case is they never fix this. (It should be fixable, just subtract out steps that happened while a cycling activity was in progress.)

What's the step count good for? General activity level. I don't think anybody cares what the exact number is or uses it to measure walking distance. Surely we're not getting paid for our steps. Nothing terribly important hangs in the balance... It's basically a measure of how active you were during the day, the most important decision you're going to make from this data is whether to have some iced cream.

So you go for a bike ride, and it shows that you were more active. That's the worst case.

Best case is they fix it and the data is clean and easier to use to see trends.

Seattle Forrest

Thanks for the link. I've got an Android phone but need to figure out how to do about the same thing. Would be very very useful.

I haven't used courses much to navigate, I tend to do it on the fly. But you might be able to answer a question for me. My girlfriend wants to do a long hike this summer, we're planning to take three or four days. I built a course in GC, spent about an hour laying points down over a trail and being OCD about it. I get an elevation chart in the course editor but no total ele gain. Is there a way to get that from a course? Or even to just pull it onto a computer?

dr_lha

I'm not sure what the point of this post is. Yes, they could fix it. They have not.

I want a pedometer to count steps, not how much my ass bumps up and down while I'm cycling. It would be trivial for them to fix this, they choose not to, despite it being an advertised feature of the phone when it was introduced.

Seattle Forrest

The reason for having a pedometer is to know how active you are. If cycling gets counted as more steps, it'll show that you were active on days you ride your bike. Riding a bike is being active. It's not ideal but it's also not the end of the world. Shouldn't ruin your day.

dr_lha

Sure, OK. But I'm counting those "calories" from biking as well as they're being recorded by Strava to healthkit, so in essence my effort is being double counted. It's not ruining my day, but it certainly is on the list of "should be fixed".

Seattle Forrest

That's a much bigger problem.

My shiny new Garmin watch picks up some steps when I ride over rough pavement. I'd prefer if it didn't but can live with it. But the activity tracker stops counting calories in an activity so it doesn't double count them. I can live with that.

Seattle Forrest

As for the title of the thread, I'm still using my Edge even though I have a smart phone and a very advanced fitness watch. It's waterproof, mounts easily/securely on the stem, and the battery lasts forever.

Gus90

Absolutely correct!!! So frustrating.

dalava

I have several bikes, and one of them doesn't have a mount for my garmin, and I only ride it when I didn't care how fast or far I'm going. The other day, I rode it for my commute and the cleanness of the handlebar in front of me and the freedom from having all the data right in front of me was very liberating. I think we cyclists now treat a bike computer as part of the cockpit, but it really doesn't have to be. In fact, not having it staring back at you all the time may be better for us recreational riders.

Stucky

Why not just get a robot to ride your bike for you?

Seattle Forrest

People say this a lot but I've never understood it. I feel like I spend 99 % of my saddle time looking at the road ahead and my surroundings, with the last 1 % of the time glancing at my bike computer. I've never felt trapped by it. You make a choice to look at it or not to. I don't understand why anyone would look at something if they don't find value in seeing it, but people say having this info available makes their riding experience worse, as if they're powerless to not look. I just don't get it.

WhyFi

So it's like the Opti-Grab from The Jerk?

RJM

Hey SF, is your garmin watch a GPS too? And, does it do elevation differences too?

dalava

First off, I really like the look of the bike without the garmin mount. It's super clean.

As to why people can't stop looking at the computer, I would guess it has a lot to do with personality. I am bit of OCD so it's hard for me NOT to look at it if it's right there. And yes, it probably is hard for you to understand if you are not that kind of people. It's like the people who saw black/blue can't understand why others see white/gold.

Seattle Forrest

I guess it has to be a personality thing. I'm not that kind of person so maybe I'll never understand. But I can grok wanting/enjoying a clean look for the bike.

Seattle Forrest

Yeah, it's got GPS data recording. No maps though. I mainly bought it to replace my hiking GPS. I almost never used it to navigate, just to record and give me stats. Hiking GPS = 11 oz with batteries, plus I think 1/4 pound per day for extra batteries. This was 20 grams heavier than the watch it replaced and has enough juice for a two-day hike. I'm going to order a ~4 oz battery pack to get up to about 10 days. Shedding pack weight was one of the main reasons I decided to fork out the money.

It pairs with the same sensors (cadence, HRM, etc) as my Edge, does phone notifications, etc. I need to rent a power meter to have it calculate my VO2max. So far it's a little buggy, like all new Garmin products, but I like it very much.

This is basically what the elevation screen looks like:



I will post a review here when I've had it a few weeks. It does a lot of cool bike stuff, might be interesting to someone.