Motolegs

Yes, it does have the trim feature. Works well too. BD doesn't show both sides of the shifter. Here it is complete with thumb button.

RollCNY

Bikes fairly universally depreciate 40-50% in the first year. Buying the cheapest bike means you lose the least. Today on BF, people have mentioned picking up new 5700 groups for $125. In two years, you will be lucky to get that for your used $400 5800. That loss is more than I paid for my groupset. If you think any part of a bicycle is an investment, you have missed the boat.

Earlier, you talked about buying high end stuff for the durability. But DuraAce is not more durable than Ultegra. It is lighter. That is its purpose.

Also, your "cake and eat it" argument is pure marketing pablum. For the "recreational enthusiast" that you described up thread, why do they need an 11, and why do spaces matter? On my handy dandy Sora, a 50/34 coupled to a 9 speed 12-23 cassette has left me no discernible holes.

Oh that's right, I am not a cycling enthusiast because I don't own an 11 speed group, so I shouldn't even be posting on this forum.

ColaJacket

I asked because the poster was mentioning some type of sound coming from the chain, and if they're not using the trim function, that can cause it.

GH

mercator

Back when I was a noob, progressing to an enthusiast, I had 5 cogs in the back. I rode that bike on a 600 mile tour through the rockies.
For a long time, I had 8 cogs on the back and rode many more tours, centuries, and even a double century with no problems.
Now I have 10 cogs on the back and I find I have to click a couple of extra clicks to get from one end of the cassette to the other.
Having 11 cogs will surely make my life complete.

dtrain

+1. If anything, I'd argue that something like a 6800 carbon bike depreciates more. It's a sellers market on C-list under a grand, but a turns into a buyers market pretty quickly there after. Those 3-4k bikes fare worse (percentage-wise) than the 1k bike on resale, IME.

Alias530

Bikes depreciate 50% if you buy the poverty level stuff nobody wants, that's my point.

I just sold my mountain bike, a 2012 Stumpjumper, for $3k, last week when the 2016 models were announced. 4 model years old and I sold it for 2/3 it's original RETAIL price (not what I paid, I paid $3750). In 4 model years, I lost a whopping 20%. See where I'm going with this?

And I didn't say that Dura Ace lasts longer than Ultegra, I challenge you to find that and I'll paypal you $20 if you can find it. Even though I didn't say it (yet), it's partially true. Dura Ace CASSETTES last less long than Ultegra, but there's a reason Shimano offers a 3 year warranty for Dura Ace/XTR and 2 year for everything else. The shifters/derailleurs last longer before getting mushy.

You don't have to race to benefit from 11 speed. Look at the middle gear spacing of an 11-28 10spd vs 11-28 11spd. I'll use SRAM as my example because I have it memorized. 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28 vs 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28. See how you get the 16 cog on the 11spd model? 15->17 is a massive jump. It's like 24mph vs 20mph @ 90rpm with a 50T ring. I don't know about you but I find myself going 22-23mph quite often, which means I'm spinning my ass of in the 17 or grinding in the 15, but with the 16, I'm at a comfortable cadence. If you are stronger than me and can push 50x15 all day, good for you but I can't. If you're weaker than me, then I guess you wouldn't understand.

Stucky

No, of course you've never seen a bike drivetrain ad.....but you've likely read bike magazines or been to bike shops or have been around sponsored events or other cyclists, -all vehicles by which the attitude of having "the latest and greatest" is preached.

As far as I'm concerned, I can not tell an iota of difference between my 9-speed and my 10-speed bike- and I'm sure it would be the same with an 11 (and I live and ride in very hilly terrain). I've never once ridden the 9-speed and said "Oh, I wish I had just one more gear!"-much less, two.

The value thing? Sure, if you plan on selling your bike in the first year or so; and even that is eaten-up by the fact that you'll pay more for the 11 to begin with; vs. being able to get a big discount on the 10 when you buy it.

My 9-speed bike, bought used, has actually appreciated in value by about 30%. I think more and more people are realizing that most of the new frills they keep coming out with, are just needless features designed to make them part with more money by buying a new bike. Also, replacement parts for the "latest and greatest" cost more than for previous generation stuff.

No matter what bike you buy new, it's going to depreciate by about 50% within a year or two. A few years down the road, the values will equalize, whether the bike is 9, 10 or 11 speed. When it's 7 years old...no one will care.

Alias530

And you could paint a house with a 1" paintbrush, doesn't mean that rollers and sprayers aren't better.

You could also walk across the country, doesn't mean that flying or driving isn't better.

Stucky

I guess a Venge Expert with 10-speed Ultegra; Aerofly bars; Toupe Pro carbon saddle and Praxis chainrings is poverty level then - 'cause I bought it at barely a year old, with under 1000 miles on it, for less than half of what it cost new...... Over 60% depreciation in one year......

Alias530

Wrong and wrong. I don't get my info from biased, commission-based salesmen or magazines that never write a bad review. I do my own research, borrow friends bikes for test rides, etc. If you can get along with 9 gears, great, that doesn't mean other people benefit from them and it certainly doesn't make 11spd more valuable when reselling a bike.


Only junky bikes nobody want depeciate that much. Look at my last post... 4 model year old bike that I lost 20% of what I paid.

Alias530

Good for you, you got lucky that you found someone who 1.) didn't know what it was/what it was worth 2.) was desperate OR 3.) stole it

Trust me, that is NOT the norm.

makeitso5005

If you wait long enough there's always a sucker somewhere...

Alias530

No, that's just what comparable bikes were going for. I listed mine a little higher because mine was in really good shape and I had it sold within 2 days and had a couple people email me about it after the fact before I took the ad down.

I'm telling you, the good stuff is easy to sell and retains its value.

makeitso5005

Home - Used Bicycles for Sale - BicycleBlueBook.com

Have fun.

Honestly it's pretty hilarious all these claims you're making. You make it sound like it's HARD to get 8-10 speed equipment. Specifically the 9-speed road stuff is some of the longer lasting gear in recent memory. Much more durable than these 10 and 11 speeds. For whatever reason you believe you need the latest and greatest... marketing has hooked you. You're no faster, you're no more competent, you're no better of a cyclist for having 11-speed. It'll depreciate just as fast and you'll even see NOS stuff on showroom floors right now for 30% off MSRP. You're a marketer's dream customer and there's nothing wrong with that.

Motolegs

Alias530

1.) I made no such claim it's hard to get parts, I said it's a "dying standard", this is indisputable
2.) I couldn't care less what some online blue book says. It's a rough guideline, just like the KBB is for cars. Good bikes that aren't generic and low end command higher prices, also indisputable.
3.) Also couldn't care less about longevity of $20 chains and $50 cassettes. I genuinely feel bad for you if having to spend $70 once every 2 years vs every 2.5 years even crosses your mind, if the longevity is even that much different, which I doubt.
4.) Having a 16T cog genuinely HAS made me faster. I cannot efficiently pedal in 50x17 or 50x15 for the power I can generate, but I can in 50x16. I could have gotten an 11-23 or 11-25 or something with 10spd, but then I'd sacrifice climbing ability. No compromise with 11spd.

makeitso5005

1) Dying standard... (indisputable) You can buy NEW 7-speed TODAY! Are people worried about their gear number disappearing? No... not unless you plan on riding 20+ years on the bike you have now and can't fathom to buy a new groupset once it wears out.
2) The market is whatever some sucker will pay. (indisputable)
3) You obviously forget that a groupset consists of more than a cassette or chain.
4) You can get a 16T regardless of the total number of gears in the back... And if that sacrifices your climbing ability.. well, you are a finely honed and crafted athlete who can only operate efficiently within a tiiinnny window of opportunity.

But yup, it's pretty much indisputable you're a marketer's dream and living off in your own inflated world. I'm sure you'll be first in line when 12-speed is released. Considering the issues you're having in the other thread with your top of the line 11-speed gear I'm sure you'll be itching to upgrade. But thanks for funding the trickle down R&D we all appreciate it.

Alias530

The other parts of a groupset aren't wear items. Derailleurs, shifters, crank, brakes... those you buy once. Chainrings, sure, but I've never kept a bike long enough to wear those out. Ultegra chains and cassettes are $20 and $50 online and the cassette will last years. There's even reports of 10 or 11spd chains lasting LONGER than the previous model. There's no way to substantiate this, too many variables, but even if it lasted half as long, I'm certainly not poor enough to notice $70 every couple years and I feel bad for anyone who is.


Having a 25T climbing gear indisputably limits the grades you can sit and spin going up compared to a 28. Without 11spd, the only way to get a 16 is with a narrow range cassette. How the hell are you even trying to say that having wider range and closer gaps to maintain optimal cadence is a bad thing? Not having to make compromises is a good thing!


11spd leaves nothing to be desired, 9 and 10spd did. I have 3 bikes on 11spd right now, road/cross/mtb. And the "problems" I was having in the other thread were chain lube related, not drivetrain related, and would happen regardless of the best or worst drivetrain. If you can't figure that out on your own, I feel bad for you.

Stucky

Wrong. I bought it from a bike mechanic. Knew exactly what it was worth. He likely got it wholesale, so didn't care. I got a little bit of a good deal- i.e. price on the low-side; and the upgrades to boot- but you can buy 'em all day long on Ebay for c. 50% of new MSRP.

Meanwhile, my 18 year-old Klein is still worth c. 40% of it's 1997 MSRP....with 9-speed......

On your MTB, you're comparing apples to oranges- basing your percentage off of what YOU PAID for it, vs. MSRP. Likewise, you'd get a similar deal on last-generation bikes today, and they'd retain a similar percentage of their "what you paid for them" price.

If you like 11-speed and want to buy it, fine.....no skin off my nose- but PULLEEZE, don't try and justify by making ridiculous claims about the value and benefit of it vs. slightly older stuff with one less cog.....

makeitso5005

You obviously haven't been riding very long.

Uhm... you can get cassettes with 16 and 25 teeth in 10-speed. But I'm sure you'll come up with another excuse.

Yep, nothing to be desired til something else comes out, then you'll try and shame people (poorly) once again as you upgrade... again. But you don't have to feel bad for me though, I never had those issues to begin with on my dying system. Thanks for caring though!

Motolegs

All my bikes do the same thing. With a new bike though I worry like crazy. Over nothing.

Ayers

If only they'd had more gear choices.

Alias530

Good LORD are you that dense? I said you can't get 16 and 28 in the same cassette. I said the only way to get a 16 was to have no bigger than 25. It's not "another excuse", it's you failing at reading comprehension. And shifters/derailleurs, unless defective or in a crash, will last longer than I'll keep my bike for. I don't keep bikes for more than 2-3 years.

Alias530

How is what I paid vs. what I sell it for not a fair comparison? One of you people said that bikes lose 40-50% in the first year, the only constant is MSRP. If I'm better at negotiating than you and I get the bike for 20% off MSRP and you get it for 10% off MSRP, the only constant is MSRP!

Tweak the example so you don't get your panties in a bunch... My point was that selling for $3k when it's 4 years old is a lot more than 40-50% less than what I paid OR MSRP!

makeitso5005

Then get the 27t one then. If 1 tooth causes so much pain to you... you're better off in a lab where you can control every variable than you are outside as you care more about riding on paper than outdoors. People have been riding for over almost 2 centuries without 11 cogs in the back and yet it's now some miracle from heaven they've arrived that you can now ride a bike comfortably. It's pretty hilarious how much paper riding you do here, and yes, it's just another excuse - justify it however you want - or everyone who rides on anything but 11-speed was doing it wrong...