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  1. Those energy delivery/distribution costs are...

    Those energy delivery/distribution costs are counted. It's probably not much different to deliver fuel to a private car than to a harvester or food transport truck. A lot of the energy costs were...
  2. Agreed. Agreed.From that link: Fly in the...

    Agreed.
    Agreed.From that link:

    Fly in the Ointment

    Our walking or biking economies look pretty decent stacked up against cars—especially if we considered consuming foodstuff as potent as...
  3. The cyclist has to eat and breathe more when...

    The cyclist has to eat and breathe more when cycling than when inactive. It is that extra energy that is being estimated.
  4. Yes, using the assumptions in these messages, a...

    Yes, using the assumptions in these messages, a bike is almost twice as fuel efficient as a Prius with one person in it.
  5. I was responding to your suggested comparison of...

    I was responding to your suggested comparison of 20 years of riding the bike VS 1 year of driving the Prius.If you want to do a per mile comparison using the same assumption, the bike comes out ahead...
  6. Ignoring the fact that those 2,000,000 calories...

    Ignoring the fact that those 2,000,000 calories of food are generated using 20,000,000 calories of industrial energy. That's the amount the Prius would have access to in this comparison, and if it...
  7. In the post I responded to, you specifically...

    In the post I responded to, you specifically referred to the impact of "driving" your Prius compared to riding your bike, not the impact of owning the Prius, which would include the energy costs of...
  8. If we want to look at the energy savings and...

    If we want to look at the energy savings and environmental benefits of biking vs driving, it's only fair that we recognize that (a) biking has a per mile energy cost, in terms of needing energy...
  9. Apparently not only do we have different math, we...

    Apparently not only do we have different math, we have a different reality.
  10. The Prius would clobber the bike on fuel...

    The Prius would clobber the bike on fuel consumption, if you eat a typical North American diet.
    Biking: 100,000 km at 20 kcal/km =2,000,000 kcal food; requires 20,000,000 kcal fossil fuel = 645...
  11. I'm not contrasting the engines, I'm contrasting...

    I'm not contrasting the engines, I'm contrasting the fuel. A cyclist may seem to use fuel much more efficiently than a car, but she uses a derived fuel that has been created using other fuels. So...
  12. What is the relevance to car-free living?

    What is the relevance to car-free living?
  13. Nothing ad hominem. You seem to be missing or...

    Nothing ad hominem. You seem to be missing or avoiding a simple point. You can't compare the energy efficiency of cycling fuel (food) versus car fuel (gasoline) without acknowledging the energy cost...
  14. My point is apparently going completely over your...

    My point is apparently going completely over your head - or are you deliberately ducking it?
  15. And I have a good reason for pursuing this...

    And I have a good reason for pursuing this argument. Many people in this forum (but certainly not all) say that one of the reasons they have adopted a car-free or car-light lifestyle is for the...
  16. Only if people ran on gasoline, but a gallon of...

    Only if people ran on gasoline, but a gallon of our fuel is made using ten gallons of gasoline, so we get 91.18 mpg, and if you compare biking to two people riding in the car as you suggested, then...
  17. That link says the energy cost of cycling is 34...

    That link says the energy cost of cycling is 34 kcal/ mile - I used 40, but let's say it's 34. Then the energy cost of two people biking 35 miles is 34X35X2 = 2380 kcal, above their baseline caloric...
  18. Personally I'm not arguing on behalf of cars, I'm...

    Personally I'm not arguing on behalf of cars, I'm arguing on behalf of good math :)
  19. The person riding 70 miles a day (!!) will need...

    The person riding 70 miles a day (!!) will need an extra 3000 kcal/day to fuel that cycling, on top of the basic 2500 kcal diet. The energy in that extra food is about the same energy as 1/10...
  20. I'm pretty confidant that a relaxed person riding...

    I'm pretty confidant that a relaxed person riding a bike is still expending more calories per mile - from their body - than a nervous driver from their body. So there is an energy cost of riding a...
  21. You expend calories to ride a bike, and every...

    You expend calories to ride a bike, and every mile you ride, your body is burning calories and generating CO2 above the rate you you would be generating it if you were sitting in a car. Those excess...
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    You say it like it's a bad thing :) BTW I'd be...

    You say it like it's a bad thing :) BTW I'd be thrilled to join in seriously on any 'more appropriate' thread you wish to start.
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    So many people die in or by cars every day that...

    So many people die in or by cars every day that we've stopped noticing.
    Toronto's killing streets as deadly as ever: Hume | Toronto Star
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    Wow, no 'old man rant' from Rowan - I'm impressed!

    Wow, no 'old man rant' from Rowan - I'm impressed!
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    A bunch of old men ranting - these kids...

    A bunch of old men ranting - these kids nowadays! It's an old refrain - I simply call it the old man rant.

    If they are wimps, its because their parents don't let them do anything.

    These...
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