Originally Posted by sydney
It's no myth. I've got the specs on the tubing. And acording to what I got in print, your comparison of #1` and 2 is also incorrect.Also ride a pretty decent Medici built with Columbus SL, which is close in butting to Tange #3 and and the Medici is a heavyweight compared to the lighter more modern steel I have. #1 would be a relative pig(boat anchor). I guess one has to get their head out of the sand(among other places) and look at old school steel in comparison to new lghter stuff. The poster's question was.. 'are they light or relatively heavy bikes?'. The real answer is they weren't bad for their time, but that time was a long time ago. Or light or heavy compaared to what ?
Here are the facts on Tange #1 and #2 tubes:
Steerer: same gauge, same weight
Head Tube: same gauge, same weight
Fork Blade: same gauge, same weight
Seat Stays: same gauge, same weight
Chain Stays: same gauge, same weight
Seat Tube: same gauge, same weight
Tange #1 was designed to reduce the most serious weakness of light steel frames of the '80's: bottom bracket flex. The small diameter steel tubes prevailing in 1988 would allow the bottom bracket to flex as much as half an inch under a powerful cyclist. Not a problem for a smooth pedaling time trialist. But, a significant problem for the majority of riders who are often accelerating out of turns or pounding up a hill.
So, the downtube on #1 was made stiffer by going to a 1.1/0.8 gauge instead of the 0.9/0.6 used on #2 (which was strong enough for a smooth pedaling cyclist on a time trials bike). And, #1 used an improved top tube, at 1.0/0.7. No. 2 used 0.9/0.6 - acceptable for a time trials bike, but not strong enough for a strong cyclists in Crits or stage races.
And, Tange #1 resulted in a light, yet very stong steel frame. By putting a bit more strength in crucial areas, the problem of flex was reduced. By 1990, Schwinn Paramount designers were using a more "elegant" solution": using larger diameter tubes with thinner walls. A stiffer, less flexible, yet lighter downtube. But, in 1988, makers of "lugged" steel bikes were restricted to "standard" size small diameter tubes in order to use industry standard-size lugs and components. So, in 1988, the Tange #1 tubes were an ideal solution to bottom bracket flex for the "lugged" frame builders.
Even with the inexpensive and heavy training style wheels that many mid-priced road bikes were speced with, a Tange #1 bike weighed just 21 pounds to 23 pounds. With ultra-light Pro racing wheels and racing tires, a Centurion, and other Tange #1 bikes can weigh under 20 pounds.
Weights of 1988 and 1989 Road Bikes:
"High End" Road Bikes"
Bianchi Giro $1,250 - Columbus SLX/SPX - weight: 22 pounds
Mercian King of America $1,600 - Reynolds 531 - weight: 21 pounds
Cinelli Athena $1,500 - Columbus Cromor - weight: 22.5 pounds
Centurion Prestige $1,000 - Tange Prestige - weight: 21 pounds
Specialized Allez Epic $1,800 - Carbon Fiber - weight: 20.9 pounds
Tesch 101 $1,900 - True Temper RC - weight: 21.5 pounds
In 1989 and 1988, the "expensive" bikes were coming in with weights of 21 to 22 pounds, using "high end" components, light wheels and tires.
"Mid-Priced Road Bikes"
Panasonic DX-6000 $730 - Tange #1 - weight 21.5 pounds
Terry Chrom $750 - Tange #1 - weight 22.5 pounds
Centurion Ironman Master $750 - Tange #1 - weight 22.5 pounds
So, even with lower priced and heavier wheels, tires, and components, the $750 bikes using Tange #1 had a total weight similar to bikes costing twice as much, which came equipped with more expensive, and lighter components, and lighter wheels and tires. Trade the wheels and tires between the $750 bikes and the $1,500 bikes and the Tange #1 bikes would be LIGHTER than the Reynolds 531 bikes, the True Temper bikes, and the Columbus steel-framed bikes.
At home, I HAVE traded wheels and tires among my Tange #1 bikes, my Reynolds 531 bikes, my Columbus steel bikes, and my True Temper RC bikes. Result: with the same wheels and tires: Tange #1 bikes are as light, or lighter as any of the competing steel framed bikes.
And, how does the 1988 Centurion's weight compare with some expensive 2005 Road bikes?
"Cycling Plus" weighed the LeMond Versailles at 20 pounds and the Specialized Roubaix Elite at 20 pounds. Put some 2005 racing wheels and racing tires on the Centurion, and guess what? It also weighs 20 pounds.
So, by the "boat anchor" standard, the 2005 Versailles and the 2005 Roubaix must also be considered "boat anchors".