Did not read the thread, but to answer your question about being seen: check the commuting forum. This is a bigger issue with them than with us "safety weenies" and many people who post there have innovative solutions to lighting concerns.Originally Posted by sbhikes
1998 Specialized S-works Hardtail - hotrodded
2005 Kona Jake the Snake cyclocross
Based on Diane's description of her situation, it sounds like the answer is a lightweight Nissan backpack thermos -- so she can go in early and have decent coffee.
Cars kill 45,000 Americans every year.
This is like losing a war every year, except without the parades.
As usual, you're FOS.
In previous posts, you've said that you always move back to the right when the overtaking driver is about 10 seconds back. With a 40 mph closing rate (e.g., car at 55 mph, cyclist at 15 mph), that means the car is 587 feet behind you when you move over, and even further away when you presumably see that they "notice" you.
There's no way you can detect a driver slowing down "a bit", or hear their change in engine speed, when they're over 600 feet away! That's 2 football fields, sports fans.
Of course, if you're only employing your silly technique while toodling around your suburb, with its 25 mph speed limit, perhaps you have a point (however, it's simply irrelevant to most real world cycling scenarios).
I think HH has provided a bit more color and fancy to his descriptions of detecting slowing cars, but I can attest that in real world one does have cues - not as specific as HH makes out, but more subtle and hard to put into words. For me this is riding 20mph in 50mph traffic, so a 30mph delta or so. I will note that I have never found any sonic information to be useful. Its all based on visual.
In the end it really doesn't matter if they see you or not as one will move over if safe. I think 10sec is a bit early to move over, 10sec is a long time in practice.
Al
Al
I'd recommend at least doubling that to 20 seconds if you notice a semi or other heavy vehicle coming up behind you, because they have to plan ahead for the possibility that the cyclist 10 seconds ahead of them may not give up the lane, and braking or changing lanes can be, dare I say, a weighty matter for them
Sure out of courtesy, no question, point about less than 10s is that even then that is plenty to move right and be clear if the driver doesn't see you. But they also need to be prepared to slow as there is not always the option for me to move right. Specifically this often occurs when riding in NOL with no shoulder and high curb - in fact a near daily occurance for me as the road I ride like this going home from work parallels a freeway and when the freeway gets clogged the overflow goes on this road, including semis. When i see a large truck approach in these cases I give the slow signal and don't move right, so they knoiw they have to slow. None seem to have any issue slowing to 20 from 45 or so, and with this speed differential in 20sec I cover quite a bit a distance between first seeing the truck, more distance before I give slow signal and even more until they are behind me. Someone else can chime in with the math, but 20 sec is a decent distance to cover in the 45/20 scenario. The nice thing about semis is that drivers are proffesional and seem to know how to merge right before slowing to 20 and being on my tail unlike 80% of other drivers who make it difficult on themselves my first getting right on my tail before then trying to merge (all this is in NOL case, in WOL I will have moved over before they have a chance to be on tail)I'd recommend at least doubling that to 20 seconds if you notice a semi or other heavy vehicle coming up behind you, because they have to plan ahead for the possibility that the cyclist 10 seconds ahead of them may not give up the lane, and braking or changing lanes can be, dare I say, a weighty matter for them
Al
Of course. ALL the number are just estimates, really guesses.
The point is, when you're out there, it works, without any issues. Frankly, I don't really know exactly how long I wait each time. It's not like I'm out there with a stop watch. Every instance is different and unique. My speed, their speed, light conditions, road conditions, traffic loads, etc. etc.
Most times motorists might slow down as they're approaching me, not all the way down to my speed, but some. As soon as they start slowing down, that decreases the closing speed and increases the closing time. If you try to incorporate that into the calculations, it gets extremely hairy. But, again, the point is it works. Nobody's screeching tires, or honking or swerving or doing anything whacky. It's all smooth and civil. When I have evidence that they've noticed me, or, if they're too close for comfort, I move aside, and they usually accelerate as they pass me. Time after time it more or less works that way. If you want exact numbers, go time it yourself.
Exactly. Its so simple and natural once one tries it. I suspect most of the disagreement comes from those who haven't tried it. What do folks do when riding in NOL?
Anyway this is not the ddDLIPSLCIK or what ever thread, its the sun thread. Sorry.
Al
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