prendrefeu

...and the cyclist is the one arrested (+ his wife)...

https://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php

Psydotek

Effin aye...

Maybe we all should send complaints to the MTA about this (even though it wasn't us).

roadfix

Dang, what a story. I sometimes ride through that corner. I hope I don't run into the same bus driver.

merider1

Bus driver is very definitely wrong and should lose her job (and should have been cited).

However, the cyclist did not act appropriately either, IMO. He should have taken down the license plate number on the bus and reported it. But to stand in front of an angry MTA driver (sorry, but I use to ride the buses out here years ago, and those drivers are often very hassled and angry) and a 10 ton bus is not the smartest thing to do. He could have been killed.

Standing our ground as cyclists is necessary, but getting killed over it, is...well...a waste, teaches nothing and betters no one's safety. As for the cyclist being arrested, that sucks, but then again, there was a better, and more importantly, SAFER way to handle it.

Mo'Phat

Wow...that was biased.


Bus driver was wrong for honking and being a 'typical bike hater'.
Rider was wrong for standing in front of the bus and escalating the situation.
Karate Kid was just wrong...and should get squish, just like grape.
Author of the article was wrong for imposing his opinion on something he didn't witness.

Note that the only quotes are the bus driver...screaming, yelling, etc. But the cyclist is described to have said what he said in a calm, rational, legal manner. Life rarely works out that way.


*edit* Just read that it was the author of the article that was the 'cyclist' in question. Still...biased as all get out. Case in point:
"Deputy Parrott and Supervisor Dunn looked at each other with a synchronized “WTF” look on their humbled faces and for a moment the only sound that could be heard was the thundering roar of systemic incompetence resounding down the boulevard."

Puhleeze.

prendrefeu

I second merider's thoughts...

I'd also like to see what the Metro/MTA is telling their drivers about cyclists rights to the road. In the downtown area, most of the time everything works really well: both bus's and cyclists accommodate each other, because both know that they've got to get somewhere quick and on time. Even the non-local bus's (such as the Montebello, SM, and Foothill lines) know what's up around downtown.
I just wonder if the MTA covers this topic in their training of drivers.

tblendell

i live and ride in hollywood and i've encountered the bus squeezing past thing before. its a weird passive aggressive thing, i think. the worst place this has happened to me is hollywood blvd. just west of la brea where the road on the right side is really, really chewed up. usually i'm just on my way to riding in the hollywood hills which is a drag when i don't feel like riding hills. the alternative seems to be sidewalks, which i unashamedly ride on when it seems less dangerous than the roads/drivers, or taking my bike to another part of town (the park, the rosebowl, the beach). needless to say i've gotten better at climbing.
LA should be the best city on the west coast for bike commuting but its the worst.
i'm torn between what merider suggests and what the cyclist actually did. perhaps i'm too cycnical, but i highly doubt that if the cyclist had taken the bus license number and time of day etc. that any supervisor would have done anything. as he says, probably the the big fat (one assumes) driver is still out there driving as aggressively as she pleases -queen of the road!- and hasn't been spoken to or admonished or written up or anything. trying to detain the bus driver to make a citizen's arrest however might have been more than was appropriate, though, because now the bus driver and all the bus drivers she tells the story to, will just walk away from it thinking that these bicyclists are crazy and that the bus driver-"you go girl!"-was somehow justified in bus-nudging the bicyclist out of the way.

i'm also troubled but not surprised by the reaction of the cops. like the bus is somehow part of, what?, the "establishment?", and is somehow entitled to be dickish towards the citizenry in the same way the police themselves are. for example i cannot imagine a world where the police would show up and put the bus driver in handcuffs.

merider1

I agree, Brian, that the bus driver doubtfully received so much as a slap on her wrist. But something to caution everyone out there about is that these bus drivers are "working," and they take the stance that they have to be at the stops within a reasonable time of when the stops are planned (i.e. preferably on time) and that they provide transportation to the public (thus, making them somehow slightly above the law in terms of using the roads). I've had buses nudge me (not literally, but almost) in my CAR. They have cut me off dangerously close and couldn't care less. With that said, there are actually some very nice drivers out there who follow the laws and would be appalled at that driver's behavior. This isn't just a motorist vs. cyclist thing - this is the buses vs. all others on the road!

Of course, all of the above is my opinion only, but it is based on my experiences riding those buses, almost being hit by those buses, and hearing stories like the one in that article. I steer clear of buses if at all possible or give them all the room they want.

tinrobot

I ride through there all the time. On Sunset, I have to play "leapfrog" with the bus. When it pulls into the bike lane to drop people off, I have to go into traffic to pass the bus, then the bus roars by me only to stop a few blocks later... repeat until the diesel fumes make you sick. I've also had buses push me into cars. I was in West Hollywood on Santa Monica a month or so ago, and a bus came so close it pushed into another cars mirror. Freaking scary.

Of course, the best way to protect yourself from the evil bus is to stay away from the evil bus. I rarely use Hollywood/Sunset, I always try to use Fountain or some other back street.

roadfix

I usually take Fountain when I ride to and from work.

urbanknight

I just read this on the road cycling section. I agree that the driver was wrong but the cyclist should not have blocked the bus. Simply text or write down the vehicle number and write a letter to the company later.

Placid Casual

As someone who has stood in front of buses before, and will do so again if necessary, I have to wonder why so many of you true roadies don't think it's a good idea. Vehicular assault is a crime, and detaining a criminal is perfectly legal and appropriate. Furthermore, if you've ever tried to file a report with the MTA, you are doubtless aware that there is a peculiar law of physics that governs these complaints: as soon as they are filed, they become dark matter and their existence can only be implied. Do you honestly think that there would have been any meaningful result whatsoever had the cyclist simply phoned in a complaint to Metro's Bermuda Triangle of Customer Service?

roadfix

Unfortunately, unless there's an injury involved, you sometimes have to create a big scene like this to get the attention of the MTA authorities.

ronjon10

The only applicable law of physics I can think of is: "get hit by bus, get damaged or die" Neither one is worth making this point.

Whether or not a complaint to the MTA would have achieved anything, filing a police report with a witness should have done something, I could well be naive.

merider1

Sigh...oh, the "true roadie" crap again. For the love of Pete, give it a rest already. And by all means, stand in front of that bus and hold it back with your super powers.

If only the world was so, PC, that we could all stop a speeding bullet with our bare hands. We can't and this isn't an issue of true-roadie-ism (something you so love to bring up and mull over and over and over again), but an issue of a vehicle that can run your ass over. I think the level-headed mere mortals of this world are better served by at least attempting to use the system. It doesn't always fail - you nor anyone else knows for sure that the MTA wouldn't have done anything about this situation had it been reported without the cyclist standing in front of the bus to "stop" it from moving. And, as others in here have pointed out, the article is completely biased. There is more to this story than what was reported by the "cyclist" I'm sure.

Allez Oops

From the article:

"[Metro] Supervisor Mike Dunn stands on the sidewalk explaining in his most earnest manner, “But you have to understand, that’s how they are trained to drive. They are told to honk at road hazards!”

If Dunn actually said that, it would seem that there is an attitude problem at the highest levels in the MTA organization.

Part of a bus driver's job is to stay cool under tough conditions. Being mindful of public safety goes with the territory. If the driver can't control her emotions to the point where she is willing to risk harm to a human "road hazard," she shouldn't be behind the wheel. Period.

This all assumes the facts presented in the story are true. It is a little tricky to pick through all the colorful prose to separate fact from opinion.

I'll drop Dunn an email and post his response, if any, back here.

urbanknight

The bus struck the cyclist (clipped his hand) while passing. That constitutes a hit and run felony if the driver does not stop. Metro might not do anything, but they will have no choice but to respond to an accident report from the DMV. In the cases where the bus does not strike the rider, it's water under the bridge. If I took the time to report every driver who endangered my life, I wouldn't have time to ride anymore!

urbanknight

Play the sound clip in the article. It's pretty convincing.

merider1

I don't read where the bus clipped this guy's hand:

"The motorist with the heavy horn hand turns out to be Metro Bus Driver #XXXXX and she passes the cyclist so closely that his left hand touches the side of the bus as it speeds past him."

Not that it makes the bus driver's behavior anymore tolerable, but I think for fair discussion, we should keep the "biased and questionable" details of the article straight. From what the cyclist wrote, it can be assumed that the bus did not strike him prior to him approaching the bus and stepping in front of the bus (he touched the bus with his left hand). She scared him and was entirely too close to him (unacceptable), but she did not strike him. Besides, if that bus had struck his hand, I think he would have gone down or have a broken hand at the very least.

urbanknight

Fair enough, I did misquote him. I will say that my shoulder has been struck by sideview mirrors before with no affects, so it's possible. But yes, the author says his hand touched the bus. In that case, I would have still written a complaint to Metro and called it a day, not expecting to hear back from anyone.

Allez Oops

I would be interested to know if local vehicular code specifies a minimum passing distance between vehicle and cyclists. I know some areas do have such a specification.

A six-foot-tall person has a six-foot "wingspan". For the sake of argument, if the cyclist here had his left arm fully extended and the bus merely "caressed" his middle fingertip, that means the bus passed within 2-3' of him.

Again, just wondering if that is within the rules of the road. I'll see if I can find anything on it.

merider1

I feel it was less a misquote, Brian, than what you thought you read (interpretation). The author (cyclist) wrote it so that it was more hyperbole than truth. He wrote that his left hand touched the bus in lieu of just saying, "the bus was so close, I could touch it." This leads the reader to believe his hand came into contact with the bus as if there was no choice, when in fact, if you really read it, HE (who owns the hand connected to his arm) touched the bus. I had to go back and re-read it myself. This is why I'm so skeptical of this guy and this article. It just seems out of balance and over the top. Regardless, I'm in agreement with you that he should have done the complaining/reporting after the fact and not stood in front of it in effort to stop it from moving.

urbanknight

Yeah I misunderstood. Still, I should read more carefully. My brother and half of my students hang on single words like they are the Bible, so I should be used to that

Allez Oops

Since that statement about his hand touching the bus was open to interpretation, I posted a question about it on the blog. Let's see if the author himself will clear up all speculation by responding.

Extort

There is currently no legislation that defines the amount of room that must be present between the two. Also remember that if such a law were to be implemented, then when passing you (and we are both on bikes) I would have to be 3 feet away, (based on the current definition in the law being debated) otherwise I could get a ticket.

The idea, while having merits, is impractical, based on supposition, and virtually unenforceable... and what good is a law if it is not enforced...