Masi Warranty Issue

[Zinn-X]

A few weeks back, I noticed this apparent scratch or crack at the Alu / Carbon bonding on my Masi Gran Corsa's seat stay. So I brought it in to the guy who sold me the bike and he said he'd have a Masi rep out to look at the frame. Two weeks later she checks it out and decides nothing is wrong with it. Just a scratch. Okay fine.

Today was the first time back on the road with this thing and I hear this uncharacteristic creaking sound coming from the rear triangle of the bike when climbing out of saddle. Like a really annoying creaking sound. I called the bike shop up and told them this and he said it's probably coming from the headset. Bull****, the headset is fine. He says if the frame fails, then they'll warranty it.

GUESS WHAT (mod edit)! I don't want to be riding that frame when it fails. I spent $2500 on that bike and the shop and Masi are just trying to weasel out of replacing a shoddy product. I will never buy another cheap Chinese bike frame again and suggest everyone here take warning.

I'm just livid. I simply cannot afford to buy a new frame right now, so I really don't know what to do. I guess I'll have to sell my other bike. Arrrrgh!!!

[drainyoo]

Did the frame crack? Or do you just hear a noise? Have they refused to replace the frame if it does fail? I'm not fully sure what you expected them to do right now if it's just a scratch. If the frame is cracked then they should replace it but if it's still just a crack I'm not sure what they can do.

[Zinn-X]

Did the frame crack? Or do you just hear a noise? Have they refused to replace the frame if it does fail? I'm not fully sure what you expected them to do right now if it's just a scratch. If the frame is cracked then they should replace it but if it's still just a crack I'm not sure what they can do.

They say it's a scratch. I think it's a hairline crack because the bike is making a creaking sound, and from what I hear a crack + creaking is indicative of failing carbon fiber. Something in that rear triangle is creaking and this only started happening after I noticed this crack or scratch or whatever the **** it is.

I've heard horror stories about carbon failure and I don't want this to be in the back of my mind every time I ride the bike. I ride my bike to escape my problems and feel at ease with the world. Not to potentially end up in the hospital because some shop and a second rate frame reseller wanted to save a buck by not honoring their warranty.

The biggest thing now is that I don't feel safe riding the bike.

[BillyD]

Ummm . . . . . I realize this may not be a good time but, umm, . . . . "arrrg" should have an "h" on the end . . . like "arrrgh". And . . . um . . . in emotional usage like that you should use exclamation points, like this . . . . Arrrrgh!!!

Now that's some angst!

[jet sanchEz]

Take it in and have the mechanic ride it; this may work better than explaining it on the phone. Instruct the mechanic to ride it down a large hill.

[Zinn-X]

Ummm . . . . . I realize this may not be a good time but, umm, . . . . "arrrg" should have an "h" on the end . . . like "arrrgh". And . . . um . . . in emotional usage like that you should use exclamation points, like this . . . . Arrrrgh!!!

Now that's some angst!

fixed.

[Zinn-X]

Take it in and have the mechanic ride it; this may work better than explaining it on the phone. Instruct the mechanic to ride it down a large hill.

the hills i ride up are 15% - 20% grades. all the hills near the shop are ho hum hills. the problem only exhibits itself under heavy load uphill.

[oilman_15106]

Looks pretty superfical to me. Creaking noise could be from about 2 dozen places on a bicycle.

Without overreacting, I would ask the LBS to try to identify where the sound is coming from or if you have a stand put it up and try to find the culprit. Also most common point of noise at the alu/carbon interface is faliue of glue joint. Good luck and clam down.

[oilman_15106]

Well while I was wasting my time typing the above, you posted "fixed" with no detail of what or how it was fixed which is the point of making these posts to help others.

[masshoff]

would carbon creak if cracked? that sounds more like a metal issue. bottom bracket, seatpost/clamp - hell, I've even had an undergreased front deraileur clamp bolt be a creaking problem.

[snoboard2]

put it on the trainer. while riding, have a friend listen with a cardboard paper towel roll to hear exactly where the crack is coming from.

other than catastrophic failure, how do you like the frame? I bought the same bike w/ultegra in April

[Surferbruce]

of course it's impossible to say from the pic, but it does look like a scratch. i'd put money on the creak being the headset, bottom bracket, or pedals. don't freak out about minor scratches, they happen on every bike. if you can't source the noise, let the shop do it.
it's not impossible that the stays are defective, just pretty unlikely, and should be the last possiblity you come to.
sometimes just a thin layer of grease on your dropouts and skewers will do the trick.
how's the scratches get there anyway?

[Zinn-X]

Well while I was wasting my time typing the above, you posted "fixed" with no detail of what or how it was fixed which is the point of making these posts to help others.

i fixed my "arrrg." and changed it to an "arrrgh!!" the frame is still fuxored.

put it on the trainer. while riding, have a friend listen with a cardboard paper towel roll to hear exactly where the crack is coming from.

other than catastrophic failure, how do you like the frame? I bought the same bike w/ultegra in April

other than catrastrophic failure, I love the frame. The carbon stays make for a smooth ride, it's stiff as hell and the geometry is perfect for me. I would hate to buy a new frame simply because I don't even know if I could get another frame with so many great characteristics for a similar price ($600). But I don't want to ride this thing if I'm worrying about it collapsing.

when I originally found the problem, I had it at another shop, and they thought it was a bigger deal. Potentially more than just superficial. They told me to look into warrantying it. It just happens to be the people that would be responsible for replacing and reassembling, they are the ones who don't want anything to do with it.

[scotch]

i know nothing about carbon, but if those were cracks, would they really cause creaking and/or failure? after reading all these horrible stories about CF failure, i'm becoming paranoid that the CF forks on my steelie are going to disintegrate and i'm going to die.

[Surferbruce]

btw masiguy posts on here quite often(he's employed by masi) so i would expect to hear from him, and please stop the "they sell shoddy chinese stuff rap." i don't own a masi, but for some reason when i read your post i hear "i scratched my frame cause i let it rest/slide/drop onto whatever and now i want a new one"
maintenance is a regular part of riding a bike, get some tools and a book, find the parktools website, and learn how to do it yourself.

[Zinn-X]

btw masiguy posts on here quite often, and please stop the "they sell shoddy chinese stuff rap." i don't own a masi, but for some reason when i read your post i hear "i scratched my frame cause i let it rest/slide/drop onto whatever and now i want a new one"
maintenance is a regular part of riding a bike, get some tools and a book, find the parktools website, and learn how to do it yourself.

You know what? If I thought their customer service was worth a damn, I'd honestly go easier on them.

A year back, I asked them for some touch up paint to fix a small ding on the aluminum, and their support guy promised to get right back to me. Two weeks later I emailed again and asked what was up and he said he was working on it. I never heard back, and subsequent emails were never returned.

Weeks ago when I encountered this issue, I emailed their warranty department with these pictures and they never responded. It took them two weeks to send a rep out to this shop.

Masi's customer service is not worth a damn, so I'm sorry if that offends you or Masiguy but it's the truth.

[MrCjolsen]

This is why I don't allow carbon fiber on my property.

[barba]

Calm down. It is not at all clear from the picture that those "cracks" are anything but a little scratch in the clear coat or that the creaking you are hearing is impending frame failure from your description. There are a great many things that can creak on a bicycle. My guess is the spokes, chainring bolts, or crank.

If you are this worried, perhaps carbon fiber is not the frame material for you. Just a thought.

[Psimet2001]

The bonding between an aluminum frame and carbon stays is known to be pretty tricky. Many, many frames have failed at that joint.

Good news is that it hardly ever leads to a catastrophic failure, rather a more progressive creak and seperation. It will actually seperate at that joint eventually, but will just feel like you just started riding a suspension rig.

Oh...and this will eventually seperate. Too common, and you mention too many similar issues for it not to actually result in it's eventual failure. BTW - this had plagued many other bike manufacturers...I have faith in Masi.

[linus]

Look like scratches. Also I had a frame failed at the join and it didn't make much noise.

Get your HS, BB, and pedals serviced and should be fine.

[marqueemoon]

I will never buy another cheap Chinese bike frame again and suggest everyone here take warning.

That is not a Masi.

[prendrefeu]

I once had 'creaks' on my virata. It turns out it was just the seatpost needing some grease on the shaft. I had about 2-3 cooks at the Bicycle Kitchen try to figure out what it was, and several mechanic friends. It didn't take long to figure it out - we just tightened and checked every possible place a creak could be coming from. Everyone tried to recreate the creak by taking turns riding it around the block with various weights, riding styles, etc:.. We figured it was the seatpost. Took it out, wiped it down, then gave it a nice coating of grease on the part that would be inserted again... reinserted, tightened the seatpost clamp and voi-là! Creak gone, and hasn't returned since (8 months and counting)

It isn't the carbon, buddy.

[enjoi07]

This is why I don't allow carbon fiber on my property.

efing brilliant!

[Masiguy]

Wow... sorry to hear of your situation here. Obviously, this sucks. Thanks to the Moderator here, Jerry, for letting me know this conversation was going on- kinda hard for me to be everywhere all the time... though here I am at nearly 11:00PM...

The creak could be from anywhere, as others have mentioned. However, if you are really truly concerned, by all means send it to me to look at- best of all if you send the complete bike so I can throw my pedals on it and put my 215 pounds to work on the bike.

Looking at the picture, I would all but bet my job that the crack is actually a crack- but it's in the clear coat, caused by the dissimilar flex characteristics of the aluminum and carbon. The "bondo" used to fill and smooth the gap between the carbon and aluminum, before the frame is painted, flexes differently as well. This is why we went to a more traditional "socket" or "lug" joint where the aluminum slides over the outside of the carbon stays. I have seen and inspected a handful of these frames over the 3+ years I've been the Brand Manager at Masi and I can 100% say that I have never seen one actually fail there- except for the one that was run over by a car. Now, I don't expect that to be enough to satisfy your concerns or quell your anger. But it is the truth- so help me God/ Buddha/ Allah.

We stand behind out products 100% and the frames all come with a limited lifetime warranty- including the carbon frames. If we get the chance to look at the frame and it is actually cracked, then I promise it'll get replaced. However, not to try to blow you off at all, I've never seen one actually fail. Also, as for the sound of a carbon frame failing (which has happened to me), you usually only hear it once and then it fails- it is very rare that it happens slowly over time and over several rides. When it goes... it goes.

Seriously though, I will be happy to personally inspect the frame and confirm if it is a crack in the clear coat (as I suspect it is) or if it is an actual crack in the frame. Again, we will definitely replace it if it is cracked.

As for the problems with our customer service and the blue touch up paint;
Customer Service has had a number of personnel changes over the past several months and I admit that it has caused some gaps in service. When in doubt- come directly to me- tjackson (at) masibikes (dot) com
Blue touch up paint- still don't have any. We don't stock all of the paints, simply because they go bad sitting on a shelf and many are commercially available at most auto parts stores and some are even available through hobby shops (good ole Testor's model paints).

Again, I don't mean to sound glib at all and I do personally take these concerns very much to heart. DO NOT hesitate to get in touch with me to discuss this issue further.

As others have mentioned- the creak could be coming from anywhere and I have been plagued by this problem myself (and still have a few that I am trying to solve). try greasing the dropouts, the skewers, the headset bearings and the head tube contacts, the stem bolts, the chainring bolts, the pedal spindles and the seatpost collar where it contacts the frame. It could be anywhere. I once sprayed a bike down with Tri-Flow spray from stem to dropout because I was so pissed off and frustrated with a creak... and then it stopped! (So I never knew what the problem was.)

Buddy, I swear, I will do what needs to be done to make you feel safe riding this bike. Glad to hear you at least like the way it rides (so do I)...

Tim Jackson
Masi Brand Manager

[Masiguy]

Oh I forgot- the frame isn't made in China. We make our frames in Taiwan. I know, to some there is no difference, but being on the inside I can tell you there is in many cases. We work with vendors who make frames for some of the most prestigious brands in the industry... you have to trust me on this one.