Poor college educated cubicle slugs, I really do have pity for you.
I thrive in my trade and my education was free to me, and I was getting paid whilst I was learning.
Hell, right to this day I make money using my trade on the side.
Poor college educated cubicle slugs, I really do have pity for you.
I thrive in my trade and my education was free to me, and I was getting paid whilst I was learning.
Hell, right to this day I make money using my trade on the side.
Sorry, not trying to make you all jealous, but they are considering hiring at my place.
Now to the advice. Someone mentioned looking at non-discretionary businesses.
Can you handle working evenings/nights? Look into Janitorial work. Big offices and retail spaces are fairly keen to find reliable, thorough, cleaning staff/contractors. The contractors are where the money gets made, it isn't just pushing an "idiot stick" or swinging a mop. If you can apply a bit of know how, and learn some of the technical solutions, and modern products to producing a clean, fresh, work environment for the day staff when they walk in at 8 AM, you can get solid, well paying job or business out of it.
The company I work for is in the supply side, everyone needs toilet paper. I know of more than a few of the contractors who are keen to find solid people to hire.
Just my 2 cents.
the garbage man tells me they are always looking. in our area starting pay is around 30k+ w/exc bennies he says...
I never knew you could eat lunch from the internet? And in five minutes? Who knew paper tasted so good!Originally Posted by hnsq
You guys really need to brush up on the economy. But again I'm assuming you are USA? The US is turning into a consumer nation not a producer nation. Cash for clunkers is a great start though. What did we all trade our cars in for? Crap that is made in other countries thats what!
Good idea.
This is cycling advocacy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1d1gaRQ2ZM
So is this: http://www.railstotrails.org/resourc...A_20081020.pdf
Woah, watch doing this... the last two jobs I have had did credit checks on me as a precursor for employment. And that was in this economy. Some companies insist on trustworthy employees... and credit checks and drug tests are part of their normal process.By now, some unemployed readers of this might be starting to get desperate as they are running out of money. Or, perhaps you are not
running out of money yet buy you have high bills and know eventually you will. So I want to take this particular post off onto a tanget to
those people who read and feel desperate. And here is my advice...
Don't lose it, let others take the loss.
Owe on your credit cards? Stiff them. Sure your credit rating will get trashed, but paying them off at 30% won't help you if you run out of money.
House payment gonna reset upwards on your ARM? Stop paying. Banks are NOT being very good about foreclosure as they don't
want to show the hit on their books. You could possibly live a year or more rent-free courtesy of the bank. Yeah, they too may trash your
credit rating, but really, would you rather starve or crash with the relatives?
Americans are trained to pay their bills and internalize the stress of not being able to do so. The system normally works well this way, however
these are not normal times. Do you REALLY feel bad some bankster won't get their bonus because too many of you stop paying your credit
card bills? Or that some other bankster may not get as much this Xmas because you default on your loan?
With a good effort, you can always restore your credit over a 3-7 year period. And if you want to buy a house sooner, you will always find
someone who wants to sell and personally finance you with a good down payment, even if the house is not the exact one you want. but in
the end, if you hang onto your cash v. giving it to the banksters, YOU will feel much better in the end.
Oh, and those annoying phone calls? Be nice, tell them you have NO money (lie) and they are just wasting their time. Make sure that money is
nowhere it can be found and attached.
Remember, in the battle for financial survival, your first duty is to you and your family, not some bankster even if you made some financial
mistakes.
- - - - -
oh yes, if you just can't help but pay those nasty CC companies, negotiate your own lower payoff if you have the cash. You will be amazed
but if you call your CC company and get to a 'workout' person, I bet you can pay off your balance at less than 50 cents on the dollar. Maybe
even as little as 30 cents on the dollar. Make sure you get a payout letter in writing from them first before you pay anything. How do you
do this? simple, if you own $5k and have 2500 to pay, tell them you have two choices -- pay them off all 2500 and they take that and
cancel your card OR... pay them nothing and use the 2500 to pay off some other credit card.
This is cycling advocacy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1d1gaRQ2ZM
So is this: http://www.railstotrails.org/resourc...A_20081020.pdf
makes a lot of sense to me. I used to pay those HC bills, so I agree this is just how it works.
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...-For-Work.html
The Ugly Truth If You're Looking For Work
A post on the forum jogged me on this Ticker that I was writing months ago and never finished.... and pushed it back to the top of the line. This is an echo of a topic I've raised a couple of times on Blogtalk as well, from my experience as a CEO and the "negotiator in chief" with health insurance companies during that time.
First, let me tell you how health insurance actually works from the employer perspective, because most people simply don't understand this.
You probably have a line on your pay stub that says something like "Health Insurance: $100" or similar. You think that's what it costs on your "group plan."
You're wrong.
The rules for deductibility of insurance expenses provided to employees are relatively simple but have profound implications. Specifically:
•Employers cannot charge differential deductions. That is, if I am going to hit your check for $50, I must hit everyone's check for $50. (I can have two deductions - one for "individual" and one for "family" coverage, but I can't charge two individuals different deduction rates.)
•The majority of the actual expense for any particular person must exceed half of the total for the premiums to be deductible by the business from a tax perspective - that is, for the business to pay them with pre-tax dollars.
But in point of fact employees are individually rated. That is, a 20 year old male with no medical problems - that is, in excellent health - might cost $200 a month in premiums. The same policy with the same coverage for a morbidly obese 60 year old woman on multiple medications for chronic conditions might cost $1,000 - or more.
The law says I cannot deduct more than $100 a month or I can't write off the cost of the insurance against gross income (that is, I can't take the expense pre-tax.) The law also says I can't discriminate. Therefore, if I want to deduct the premium expenses (in total) pretax I cannot deduct more than $100 monthly for "health insurance."
Now consider the 20 year old kid. He costs me, the employer, $100 for health benefits (he pays the other half.) But the obese woman costs me $900 - nine times as much!
The law says that I cannot ask you certain questions when you come in for an interview. For instance, I cannot ask if you have dependents, I cannot ask about your intention to have children (if you're a woman) and a whole host of other topics. It is explicitly unlawful for me to make such inquiries, as they evidence potential for me to engage in illegal discrimination in hiring.
But if you think this sort of decision-making doesn't go on - when the impact is over $8,000 per year between two employees in cost to the employer - you're nuts. It most certainly does.
The law in this case is outrageous. What many call "discrimination" is in fact nothing more than a cold economic calculation. If I am hiring someone to do a job that pays $20/hour, that is, $40,000 in gross wages for 2,000 man-hours of work annually, a "hidden" embedded cost differential in hiring of $9,600 ($800/mo in embedded health insurance cost!) is a 25% increase in the cost of employing one person .vs. the other. To make it "unlawful" for employers to consider legitimate costs that one employee imposes .vs. another is ridiculous - but it is, in fact, the law.
So here's the deal folks: While I can't ask you about your health status nor if you have dependents, nothing prohibits you from putting that information on your resume if it is to your advantage - and it is, if you are in excellent health and have no dependents.
Will this matter?
In this economy you better believe it. This has been true forever, but it has become even more true with the passage of Obama's "Health Care" law.
So if you're unemployed and have these cost-impacting facts in your favor, make damn sure you list them.
An employer cannot ask about this, nor can you realistically discuss this in an interview, but absolutely nothing prohibits you from listing this as a "personal attribute" on your resume.
If nothing else, in a tie-breaking circumstance it will get you the interview you need to have a shot at the job.
PS: Whatever you do, don't lie. Prohibited topic of discussion or not, any false statement on a resume is a perfectly-legal cause for you to be fired for cause, and not only does that cost you your job it also makes you ineligible for unemployment!
Here is a link to a thread with some helpful responses on dealing with salary related questions that come up at various stages of the interview process:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ion-strategies
I got laid off on Thursday. Completely out of the blue, I never even saw it coming. Luckily, I have some good leads on a couple of jobs that may not be as good as the one I had but which will give me benefits and pay the bills. Once I secure gainful employment then I can keep my eyes open for something better without the pressure of being the main breadwinner who isn't winning any bread.
I agree that networking is key. Most of the good leads have been given to me by friends or past coworkers.
I would also add that you should never burn your bridges - ever. It's a small world out there and you never know when you may run into someone from your past who is now in a position to impact your future employment and who might still remember something from the past that you might now regret. I may end up going back to a prior employer and as far as I know they should take me back because when I left there 7 years ago it was on good terms. I also have a good friend there who can and has put in a good word for me.
I haven't been unemployed since 1987. Can't say that I'd recommend it highly!
-Lee, KB1GNI
"Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas"
[Happiness is understanding how things work]
Oo-v-oO = Alfa Romeo?
"Winning is the best deodorant. Someone can look at your bike and say it stinks, but if you win with it, suddenly it's okay." - Jim Busby
Nope, VW GTi.
Actually, it's in reference to my old A2 Jetta diesel that I got with frontend damage and rebuilt with a GTi quad round grill.
-Lee, KB1GNI
"Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas"
[Happiness is understanding how things work]
all good points in this thread... but didn't see advice on what to do well *before* any layoff...
we were fortunate in the Dot Bomb and Housing Bubble, but having grown up in an orphanage and
not having a pot to tinkle in or a window to throw it out of, i have always been wary of circumstance
and tended towards frugality
plus, having experienced the recession in the mid- to late-70s, well before the recent downturn
i've found it convenient and (upon numerous occasions) fortuitous to:
have a reality based budget
maximize retirement savings (and diversify vehicles - *never* all eggs in one basket!)
clear all credit card debt monthly
never have car payment(s)
pay all bills promptly
maintain an emergency fund of a whole years' worth of living expenses (shelter, food, utilities, etc.)
here's hoping that all of you out of work find a job soon!
Most importantly, always keep your contacts available out of the job site so you can turn to those you know most and best.
Also tell EVERYONE you know you are looking ASAP, most positions are filled in the "hidden" (as in unadvertised) job market.
Turn nothing down, no work should be beneath you. Treat UI payments as if you are getting paid to look for work or re-educate yourself, or even to hang out your own shingle. Try to get paid in cash as often as possible. Keep a smile on your face, it is infectious, and peoiple want to work withhappy people.
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly10...list07-10.html
Action List for the Newly Unemployed (July 20, 2010)
As employment continues declining, newly unemployed people will have to adapt to the unwanted change in circumstance.
I consider it highly likely that another leg down in employment is getting underway. As the Federal stimulus peters out and the Central State's ability to borrow $1.5 - 2 trillion a year to fund the status quo begins pushing up against the financial equivalent of the speed of light (as you approach c, it takes much more energy to increase velocity), then jobs which were only recently considered secure will be lost and the people who held them will be unemployed.
The $787 billion stimulus package, "cash for clunkers," the credit for new home buyers, the $1.2 trillion in mortgages the Federal Reserve purchased--all of these programs stabilized employment at around 131 million jobs. Now that these programs have ended or been reduced, employment is set to undergo a a new decline which could be characterized as a "phase shift."
Wealthy Reduce Buying in a Blow to the Recovery:
But the Top 5 percent in income earners — those households earning $210,000 or more — account for about one-third of consumer outlays, including spending on goods and services, interest payments on consumer debt and cash gifts, according to an analysis of Federal Reserve data by Moody’s Analytics. That means the purchasing decisions of the rich have an outsize effect on economic data. According to Gallup, spending by upper-income consumers — defined as those earning $90,000 or more — surged to an average of $145 a day in May, up 33 percent from a year earlier.
Then in June, that daily average slid to $119. "I think a lot of that feeling that the worst was over has sort of abated," said Dennis J. Jacobe, Gallup’s chief economist.
The top 20% are starting to "get it": it's going to get worse from here on, not better. Many of these High Caste technocrats are the very people who were confident that their position in the world was secure, and the Great Recession was for the lower 80%. But that is not necessarily the case, and this same group of highly paid workers also tend to over-estimate their ability to get a job of equal pay, perks and security. That denial of "the new normal" will be the undoing of many.
Examples of jobs lost in this next wave of contraction include local government employees, employees of enterprises which fold or shrink in response to losses, and jobs lost to offshoring and attrition.
The vast majority of new jobs created in the past two years have been temporary or contract/free-lance positions without guaranteed hours or benefits. This is "the new normal."
As people who reckoned their job was relatively secure discover it isn't, a new cadre of shell-shocked unemployed will have to deal with unemployment and poor prospects for permanent employment. Here is a basic, common-sense list of actions to consider should your household income fall drastically for any reason. It is based on the concepts I laid out in Survival+.
1. Cut expenses immediately. Middle-class households seem especially prone to thinking they can weather a radical drop in income without any real change in lifestyle until a new job appears. Some even resort to pulling money out of IRAs and retirement accounts (and paying penalties to do so) to maintain the lifestyle to which they have grown accustomed.
The better strategy is to perform immediate triage on the household budget and eliminate all extraneous spending. Cut expenses in every way: unplug zombie appliances and chargers, stop buying snacks and convenience food, stop going to high-priced yuppie markets, borrow films from your library rather then rent them, etc.
Write the budget down and track your actual expenses monthly. Reward yourself with a small treat if you stay within the new budget.
2. Look at your biggest expenses and reduce them to your "new normal" income by whatever means are necessary. Typically, the biggest expenses are housing, healthcare and perhaps education.
There is abundant evidence that when it comes to unsustainable mortgages, The wealthy strategically default as a business decision. If a mortgage is completely out of line with the household's reduced income, then the wealthy may have the right idea: it's just business. Anyone considering defaulting on debt should of course do what the wealthy do and consult experienced, licensed real estate and tax attorneys before making any decisions.
Some people have found that renting out rooms in their house allows them to align their income with their mortgage costs. Either expenses must be cut or income increased, or both. Hoping to find a high-paying job in the near future is not a strategy, it is just a form of denial.
Many people we know who have seen their small business income suffer have already cancelled their health insurance--$1,000+ a month is a lot of money. There may be professional organizations which offer cheaper catastrophic-type insurance to members; those seeking to slash their health insurance costs will have to look around for creative ways to do so.
3. Keep productive. All work has dignity. Base your pride in being productive, not on your position or title. It is very easy to fall into feeling lousy about oneself when unemployed, and the best way to counteract that natural diminishment is to stay productive. Find an organization who needs your energy and skills; yes it is "working for free" but you get value for your efforts: you keep your skills sharp and maybe add new ones, you have self-worth by contributing to a worthy organization, and you network with others in ways which might lead to some paying work.
One value we have lost in the U.S. is the inherent value and dignity of all work. Too many people feel that all sorts of work is "beneath them." No wonder, perhaps, given that our popular culture worships at the altar of narcissism, self-glorification, indulgence and victimhood.
I personally consider picking up trash around my neighborhood a highly valuable form of unpaid labor. There is nothing lowly about work performed with care, attention and impeccability.
4. Work to establish multiple sources of household income. If there are potentially employable members of the household earning nothing, then get them out there making some sort of income, even if it is informal, sporadic and low-paying. Something is better than nothing.
5. Think like an employer. The attitude built up by 60 years of prosperity is generally "give me a job and I'll do good work." That was no hindrance in decades of rising employment but now there is a new reality: a thousand other people will also do good work when given a job.
The key word here is "given." If you think like an employer, then you realize that doing good work is the minimum baseline. You have to provide additional value that gives the employer/supervisor some hope that you will bring a much-needed spark to the enterprise. That could be a cheery, generous nature; it could be a can-do attitude of wanting to learn new things. It could be a willingess to be flexible in hours worked.
This is not a suggestion to work for free for an enterprise which pays others to do similar work. But even in this recessionary environment, all too many people expect to work according to their own requirements rather than the needs of the enterprise. This difference in baseline assumptions is most visible between native-born Americans and recent "green card" immigrants, who typically will do whatever it takes to get ahead.
6. Beware the illusion of incremental change. Sustained effort brings results, but within this common-sense approach is a pernicious trap I call The Seductive Illusion of Incremental Change (May 13, 2008). Picking the "low hanging fruit" produces significant improvements, and with that the illusion is formed: if we just keep doing what we've been doing, little by little the problem will be chipped away to zero.
For example, in the first round of household budget cuts, it's not too difficult to pare away a few hundred dollars (travel, eating out, unlimited texting phone plans, etc.). That initial success can lead to a false confidence that such cuts can be continued to the point that income and expenses are actually aligned.
But incremental change often starts yielding diminishing returns. Are the changes being made fundamental, or are they essentially tweaks to a system heading toward collapse?
Weight loss is an example many of us can relate to. A pound of human fat contains 3,500 calories. To lose a pound of fat you need to burn 3,500 calories in excess of what you eat. To lose five pounds, you must burn 17,500 calories more than you eat. If you ramp up your exercise program and burn 500 more calories a day, then in 35 days you will lose the five pounds. Alternatively, you can cut 250 calories from your intake and expend 250 calories in additional exercise.
This sort of sustained effort will produce fundamental results, but anything less will not. Just sending out 10 resumes a week may not produce any job offers, and cutting marginal expenses rather than making the deep cuts needed to re-align income and expenses will only set aside the day of reckoning.
7. Preserve capital. Pulling money out of savings, IRAs and 401Ks to maintain a giant mortgage or an unsustainable lifestyle is unwise; that savings might be needed down the road for a really important emergency such as getting a knee replacement (paid in cash).
Given the likelihood that the stock market will eventually reflect the weakness of the real economy, then keeping IRAs and 401K capital in cash rather than stock mutual funds is a form of capital preservation.
8. Become fluid and flexible. Someone to whom various kinds of work is "beneath them" is like the person who has no interest in learning new skills; their inflexibility dooms them by reducing their adaptability. The living branch bends in the wind, the dead branch snaps off.
9. Accept the new reality. If someone offers you four hours of work, take it. It might lead to something else, and if not, at least you made a few bucks. Clinging to past paradigms is a dead-end.
10. Get healthy, stay healthy. Losing status, income, security, etc. are wounds to self-worth and the soul. Increased stress and anxiety are not healthy. Exercise and productive work/learning are important ways to reduce stress and build a positive response to unwanted change. Walk a quarter mile; when that's easy, walk a half-mile. When that's easy, walk a mile, and so on. Seek respite and renewal in Nature.
Your body is a temple; don't feed it crap.
11. Think entrepreneurally. The basics of entrepreneurism are simple: seek out unfilled needs, or offer a service/product which offers customers faster, better, cheaper. Identify what you like doing even if it's unpaid (at first) and pursue that line.
If you don't want to slog your way into the ranks of Corporate America or work for somebody else (possibly a tyrant/sociopath), then create your own job by making customers/clients your boss.
12. Create value before asking for something in return. One of the key values in Survival+ is reciprocity. If you want ten people to help you find some paying work, then you need to offer them something of value that is meaningful to them. The world does not owe any of us a living.
13. Add some beauty to your world. Our culture glorifies ugliness, aggressiveness, self-centeredness and psychoses of power. Planting some flowers that can be viewed by passerby, keeping your block trash-free, creating some art or craft, repainting a fence with bright colors--anything which adds vibrancy, color and creativity to a small corner of the world is a blow against degradation, aggressiveness, ugliness, squalor and surrender.
14. Become politically active. There are larger forces at work behind the media facades and facsimiles. Our society focuses on self-help rather than on the darker forces of Empire, Power Elites, etc. In other words, the Powers That Be support a politics of experience in which we each blame ourselves for our inability to find paying work, etc. rather than seek out the financial and political roots of our common crisis.
The Power Elites and its Mainstream Media work tirelessly to depoliticize our understanding of the world around us. They present us with a false political choice (Republican or Democrat, as if it really makes a difference to the running of the Global Empire or the concentrated power and wealth of cartels and Financial Elites), religious rabble-rousing and plentiful "entertainment" distractions-- anything to suppress or marginalize our understanding of just how distorted our economy and society have become.
Derangement is normalized though a relentless barrage of imagery, "news" and commentary which cements a depoliticized politics of experience: if you can't find work, it's your personal failings that are the "problem." It's all the Demopublicans or Republicrats fault, these reforms have "fixed" the system, etc.
Ask cui bono--to whose benefit?--of everything.
15. If there is no work in your area due to declining wealth, move to a place where wealth is still being created. Moving is both frightening and exciting; it's always been one path out of poverty into new opportunity.
16. Failure is how we learn; embrace it. One reason Silicon Valley continues to spin out innovation is that failure is not just grimly accepted but celebrated. You haven't really "earned your stripes" if you haven't had a start-up go under or equivalent (your company coming within an inch of going under qualifies). Natural selection is all about constant innovation and failure.
Bonus point:
17. Do more of what's working and less of what's not.
Be willing to take a job with less pay to work at a company that is better managed. Chances are the company won't fold and you can work your way up the ladder internally. I took a 20% cut to work in a warehouse, but 2.5 years later I got a job in the office and got 33% more than I did at my old job. The last three years at this company has been it's best ever, and it is in manufacturing.
I got hired at 18 years old to work in a state liquor store. Manager didn't even consider me because of age until I called him back and repeatedly asked him to call my reference. He called me back and hired me the next day. If you've got a great reference make sure they check it.
while travelling back into the country, I had the chance to speak with a US Customs guy. he worked the ag inspection area, and since I had been on a farm close to animals, he had to wash my shoes. I kid yo not. they washed my shoes!
So why am I telling you this? Because he also told me gets $70k/yr to do this stuff. I was simply amazed.
Anyone looking for a media buyer position? I need someone to ride with.
I only pedal uphill.
The US is still in the top three exporters though.
Really? We're that high up on the list? I wonder what we export so much of (apparently one of the things is dark chicken meat).
I'm about to be unemployed in May. I'll have work again in August, which is good, but it makes it rough to find a job for the summer. Almost no one wants to hire someone who says they'll be around for 3 months and then be gone. So that leaves either getting lucky finding someone that needs summer workers only, or flat-out lying and saying you're in it for the long haul and then quitting at the end of the summer. I'm not sure I'm above the latter--although I'm sure I'd feel bad about it.
Are you going back to the same job that you're being laid off from?
Different job, different city.
well maybe you'll get lucky and find something better and won't want to leave in August and then it won't be a lie. Best wishes
A lot of it might be parts for assembly elsewhere, but yeah the US is a mighty economic powerhouse.
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