Visp Track Frame - Help me please =)

[olegbl]

Hi, has anyone ever heard of a track frame from a manufacturer named Visp (http://www.visp-sports.com), model named TRX790? (I can't actually find this model on their web-site...)
Here's a picture of it.


===Statistics===
SIZE: 700C x 520MM (From B.B. center to seat tube top end)
MATERIAL: Frame & Fork Aluminium 6061T6 (Fork steer 250mm Cr-Mo)
B.B. SHELL: 68MM (Suggest to use 107MM axle B.B parts.)
SEAT POST: 27.2MM.
TOP TUBE: 536.6MM
HEAD TUBE ANGLE: 74.5
SEAT TUBE ANGLE: 74.5
FORK RAKE: 45MM
R/C: 390
F/C: 565
WB: 947.7
B.B DROP: 58
HEAD TUBE: 115MM
===Statistics===

How much do you think this frame is worth?
At $200, which would you recommend, this, or the Mercier Kilo TT from BikeIsland?

Thank you for your help!! =D

[4zn_balla]

a cro-mo fork steerer and 6061 frame doesn't sound high quality at all. You get what you pay for. I like the kilo because it's very light for a steel bicycle. Probably lighter than that. The fork with the TT is very heavy though.

[olegbl]

Thank you for your advice! =D
I think, if I can pick it up at around $125-$150 (incl. s&h @ eBay), I'll get it and see how it goes. (I'm on a tight budget...)
I'll post a review in this topic if that happens. ^.^

[scroticus]

i saw that same listing on ebay. started sweatin bullets thinking i had perhaps found the deal o the century. the frame looks a lot like the felt tk3 so i thought maybe it was the same just branded differently. i don't think it is now. after looking at the visp website (looks like really bad knock off stuff), i decided to save the cash and wait for a better deal on something used. i agree with 4zn though....if you're on a budget seriously consider the mercier kilo tt. $359 complete with free shipping from sportymamabikes.com with some of the best geometry i've seen in budget bikes. if you got the visp, then bought bars, crankset, wheels, seat and post, blah blah.....you're gonna end up spending a lot more and have to wait longer. just a thought.

[olegbl]

Thanks for your input!
I didn't end up buying the VISP since the bid went over $150, which I set to myself as the limit.
I'd rather not buy a complete bike since I have a lot of parts I can already use (possibly in a conversion), so I'm mostly just looking for a frame (and a wheelset).
The frame does seem of fairly low quality, but I think at $100-$150 (incl. S&H) it would be a better deal that a $200 (incl. S&H) Kilo. Then again, I haven't had personal experience with either, so what do I know?
If they put up another auction within 2 weeks or so and I can snatch it that low, I'll review it and whatnot, but, for now (at $350 + $70 S&H), I'll just leave it as an average (if not poor) deal not worth my time.

[carleton]

At $200, which would you recommend, this, or the Mercier Kilo TT from BikeIsland?

What are you looking to do race at the track (this is the track forum) and/or cruise around town? Maybe buy used. You'll get much more frame for your money if you buy used. The Kilo TT is HEAVY. My buddy has one. It's a tank.

[olegbl]

I'm looking to make a commuter bike. I would also use it on the Velodrome, but, it definitely wouldn't be exclusive.
The VISP is 2.8kg (Frame, Fork, HS, BB?) for my size (52cm), is the Kilo heavier than that?
Thank you for your input!

[carleton]

The TT is steel. So, I'm sure that the Visp is lighter.

There's buying cheap and there's buying cheap smartly. I personally wouldn't buy an unknown frame sight-unseen and unridden. There's no telling what you'd get when you opened the box and built it up. How do you know it will fit?

I'd hold out and save up for a better frame. Better than the TT.

That frame looks dope. But that's just looks.

[olegbl]

Well, it's 52cm (or I can get 56cm), which is almost my size (I'd probably need about 54 actually).
I'm currently riding a tiny frame (<50) since it was the only one available when I was building my prev. bike (out of spare parts), so it's not such a big issue for me, I'm used to it.
I agree about the unknown frame part though, I'm not keen on doing that, especially when there's no reviews available on that specific model.
I'm short on cash, but I'm not pressed for time, so for now, I'm just scouting eBay & Craigslist every once in a while, waiting for a good deal.
Thanks for you input!

[TejanoTrackie]

I just bought the VISP track frame on eBay (48cm, matt black) for $51 + $70 shipping from China. The maximum I was willing to pay was $70 ($140 total with shipping). All the others this size went for over $100, which I think is too much. I intend to build the bike as a street fixie with flat MTB bars. I already have a crankset, BB, pedals, wheels, stem, front brake caliper, grips and several seats. Only need the bar, seatpost, seat clamp and brake lever which I can scrounge used for about $25. My expectations are not very high, just as long as frame alignment isn't screwed up and it's sturdy. Anyway, as soon as I get it and build it up, I'll re-post if there still is any interest.

[verticalgrain]

Looking forward to your review Tejano Trackie, very curious about these ones.

[TejanoTrackie]

Well, the frame arrived Tuesday, exactly a week after I paid for it, really quick considering it was shipped from Tianjin, China to Texas, USA. It was very well packaged with lots of bubble wrap on the frame and fork. Finally got it put together today and took it for a short test ride. The frame and fork are solidly made with tons of good and complete welding on the frame. Alignment is excellent; the wheels are perfectly aligned and no-hands riding is easy. The bottom bracket threads were good and installation was easy. The chain line between the crank chanring and rear cog is excellent. Ditto the headset, which is a low-line Cane Creek sealed unit. The seat tube was a little large, and had to be squeezed quite hard to hold the seatpost in place. The finish is basic industrial grade, no smoothing of welds, no blending of the dropouts into the stays, no facing on the bottom bracket or head tubes, just ok paint and lots of tacky decals. The frame and fork are heavy and built like a brick crapper, very stiff and strong. There is nothing flimsy about it and it could definitely be raced on the track, but I think its main intent is a road single speed. The steering tube angle and fork offset are well matched and steering is very stable and neutral. It has over an inch of toe to front tire clearance, so it's easy to do track stands at traffic lights or tight U-turns. It also has a rear brake bridge, so it can be used safely with a single freewheel. The frame is very tight in the rear, and only about a half of the dropouts can be used before the rear tire hits the seat tube. The dropouts have very nice heavy duty stainless steel inserts to prevent damage to the aluminum when tightening the wheel. The complete bike weighs 19 lbs in contrast to my Bianchi Pista Concept track racer that weighs 15.6 lbs. Some of this is due to the heavier frame and some to the heavier street wheels. I ended up using a dropped bar that I found laying around and an ancient brake lever and borrowing a seat and post from another bike, so my total cost including some small parts was $156.64. I definitely feel the frame was worth what I paid for it, and probably would give $50 more.

[bonechilling]

How does that fork feel? It's all aluminum, right?

[TejanoTrackie]

The fork is extremely stiff vertically and front to back, so it gives a pretty harsh ride on a rough road. I use fat tubies with only 100 psi to absorb the shock. The fork blades and crown are aluminum; the steerer tube is 1-1/8" steel pipe.

[Ventana Rider]

Can the decals be removed or are they clear coated?

[TejanoTrackie]

No clear coat. However, decals are very thin and won't peel off without scraping or chemical stripping. Either way, paint will get messed up.

[verticalgrain]

Thanks for the great review, I was very curious. So were a lot of people at the London Fixed Gear forum so I posted your review there: http://www.londonfgss.com/thread22227.html#post809541

Did you happen to weigh the frame before installing any parts?

And finally, can you do us a huge favour and post some pictures of the built up bike?

[TejanoTrackie]

Sorry, I did not think to weigh it before assembly, however, the manufacturer specs state that the frame weighs 1.890 kg, the fork weighs 0.788 kg and the headset weighs 0.126 kg, so the assembled frame and fork weighs about 2.8 kg or 6.2 lbs. Since the frame size is 48 cm, which is the smallest, the larger frame sizes will be heavier.

[bonechilling]

Got that brake up high enough?

[TejanoTrackie]

Yeah, moved it down a tad.

[verticalgrain]

Here are pics of someone who built up a visp frame on fixed gear gallery:

http://fixedgeargallery.com/2009/jul...nathanDiaz.htm

[TejanoTrackie]

The VISP Model TRX790 is no more, and has been replaced with the Model TRX791. The good news is that they now include a seat clamp and the fork steerer tube is now aluminum instead of steel. The bad news is that they have tightened up the geometry with less fork rake and a shorter top tube, so the already harsh ride will be even harsher, and the toe to front tire clearance has been reduced such that there will be overlap for riders with longer cranks and bigger feet. So, it has become a better track bike and a worse road fixie. I'm glad I got mine when I did. I've ridden it a bunch and love it. Climbing is great with the short stiff rear, and it's real stable descending spun out at 30 mph.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminium-Pink-T...3A1%7C294%3A50

[queerpunk]

Quite frankly, when I saw that the model had a 74deg head tube angle and a 45mm fork, I immediately wrote it off as being a worthwhile bike.

[TejanoTrackie]

Have made some changes. Returned silver seat post and black seat to original owner (Bridgestone MB3 with street slicks), bought cheap black seatpost on fleabay and found this gorgeous old Selle San Marco Rolls saddle with perforated white leather and brass accents in a drawer. I think the seat is worth almost as much as the entire bike. Seat kept sliding down into seatube even with the seatube clamp super tight so bought this secondary clamp that goes directly on the seatpost, so now its OK. Added brake lever body on left side for out-of-saddle hill climbing, and lowered brake lever slightly. Have maybe 300 miles on it so far, and everything is holding together nicely. When the current tubies wear out, I'm going to try some wider 25's.

[Triple8Sol]

Have made some changes. Returned silver seat post and black seat to original owner (Bridgestone MB3 with street slicks), bought cheap black seatpost on fleabay and found this gorgeous old Selle San Marco Rolls saddle with perforated white leather and brass accents in a drawer. I think the seat is worth almost as much as the entire bike. Seat kept sliding down into seatube even with the seatube clamp super tight so bought this secondary clamp that goes directly on the seatpost, so now its OK. Added brake lever body on left side for out-of-saddle hill climbing, and lowered brake lever slightly. Have maybe 300 miles on it so far, and everything is holding together nicely. When the current tubies wear out, I'm going to try some wider 25's.

Can you take pics of the tire clearances? I'm wondering what size tires it can handle...