dimeotane

I'd like to find some scientifically accurate information on packing meat and cheese for periods of time.

Supposedly there are some options for keeping cheeses and meats for a few days without the food spoiling and getting ill, if the food is kept cool. Does anyone know where to find accurate info on this topic so I (we) don't get food poisoning if we try packing meats and cheeses?

- For example I read that:
- baby Bel cheeses can be packed because they are wax sealed, and kept unrefrigerated without spoiling. For how long?
- some prepared meats (pepperoni? ) can be packed because they are smoked, salted etc.
- hard cheeses last longer kept unrefrigerated than soft cheeses

What temp. is considered 'cool'? (obviously warmer than a refrigerator) and would 'cold' food kept in a foil insulator inside a bike pannier last while riding in the hot summer sun for very long?

Right now I'm sticking with mini cans and foil packets of tuna, chicken, and those things, but more options are always worth researching further.

Torrilin

In general, hard cheeses can be kept at warm temperatures. In high heat (over 70F/20C), they may get an oily coating and have a texture change, but they should keep. Eventually, any cheese will develop mold, and while usually molds that grow on cheese are safe to eat, if you have any kind of sensitivity to molds it is unwise to eat the moldy cheese. Even if there is no visible mold on your hard cheese, it often was produced with the help of a specific mold, so your first mold infestation *should* be the same kind used to make it. I'd estimate about 1-2 weeks at room temperature.

Meat that is completely cured by drying and/or smoking and is stored at room temperature by the store will keep indefinitely. If the meat is moist inside the packaging, it will mold very quickly, sometimes within a day. It must be kept absolutely dry until you eat it. Mold on meat is unlikely to be safe to eat.

Some soft cheeses or other fermented milk products are safe at room temperature or warmer. I would not *usually* recommend this because again... mold. Due to the water content, these products can mold just as quickly as meat that is not dry cured. Mold on these products is unlikely to be safe to eat.

Cool below room temperature, which is 70F/20C. A refridgerator is typically around 40F/5C. Hot or warm is above room temperature.

Mold is by no means the only food safety issue involved. Listeria bacteria (which cause listeriosis), E. coli, and botulism toxin can also contaminate improperly stored or handled cured foods (along with lots more). If you are interested in learning to handle these issues, I'd recommend eating these kinds of foods at home, and experimenting to develop the skill you need to keep them at room temperature safely. It will be harder to handle things if you only ever eat these foods on tour.

AndrewP

Hard cheeses and spiced smoked meats will keep for a few days in an insulated bag out of the sun for a few days. Hard dried meat (pemican) will last all summer but tastes awful. To save the load while riding buy food as close as possible to when you will eat it.

positron

most cheese worth eating can be kept out of a refrigerator for quite a few days. Ive had cheddars, gloucesters and stiltons last more than a week or two easy if not set out in the sun. Its amazing the number of things that are refrigerated in the USA that do not need to be (eggs, most cheese, vegetables, cured meats). As far as meat goes, most charcuterie will last for a week or more.. uncured meats I would buy and eat fresh.

cny-bikeman

Actually, unless you are in an exceedingly remote area I can't imaging needing to keep food for more than a day or so. Cooked meats keep a fairly good amt of time, esp. deli meats. I've used an insulated lunchbox bag inside my panniers to keep things cool, buying a frozen can of lemonade as "ice."

Boudicca

I'd be hugely wary of using insulated bags -- you need something to keep the bag cool anyway, which means buying something frozen, or refreezing (heavy) icepacks.

Personally, I'd buy what I need for that day, and stick to canned or dry goods at other times. Pasta with veggies and grated parmasan cheese makes an awesome meal.

cny-bikeman

...and why would you be hugely wary? The bag I use is small, weighs a few onces after I cut off the handle, and will keep foods like meat and cheese that are already cold from warming as quickly, even with nothing more in the bag. I never use anything non-consumable to cool my food. If I happen to stay overnight somewhere with a freezer I will freeze a small container of water or juice to extend the cooling, then drink it when it thaws. It's also typically very easy to score a cup of ice at a place where I am eating. There is no weight penalty to that at all.

Although I've never been more than a day from a place to buy food, there were times out west where I had to stock up in the a.m. for my food through the next day, and I like the flexibility and health benefits of being able to use perishables. Some things just taste better to me cold and can be refreshing on a hot day.

bktourer1

I don't know about meat, but I bought the Reynolds vacume sealer for dry cheese and other dry foods and the cheese keeps for quite a while after all the air is sucked out of the bag.
Works a lot better than baggies. I carry the sealer with me on the trip. Keeps breads from getting stale longer too

dcbikeguy

Check out summer sausages. No refrigeration needed till opened. Even after opened they can be edible for up to a week.

Quick one pot meal - I do it with my MSR Pocket Rocket and Titan Kettle. Cut chunks up and fry quick in olive oil with onions and garlic, then add water (maybe with a cube of bullion), raisins (or cherries, or whatever) and dried mushrooms. Boil. Turn off heat and add couscous - 5 minutes later is chow time. Easy peasy.

Machka 

On tours I will often carry cheese in the mesh pockets of my panniers. It keeps just fine for the 2 or 3 days it takes us to eat it. If we've got soft cheese we generally try to eat it sooner. As for meat on a tour, we generally buy what we need around noonish, and eat it for supper. I've carried a carton (6) of eggs in my handlebar bag all day too.


Right now, Rowan and I are living in a remote cabin in the hills NE of Melbourne. We are completely "off the grid" because the bushfires here came through and burned "the grid", among many other things, including Rowan's home. So we've got a generator and a small solar panel for power just now. I'm able to run the computer, radio, and wash machine with the generator, and we've converted the lights to 12-volt so that they will run from the solar panel.

A fridge is not an option because they take way too much power. So we've got a small 12-volt car-cooler. We buy what we need for the week on Saturday, and put the meat, cheese, and cream in the car-cooler, which we run for a little while in the evenings. We do try to cook and eat the meat early in the week ... so we usually have several suppers with meat, and then a few vegetarian meals at the end of the week. The processed cheese and eggs are not refrigerated ... they keep just fine in the cupboard.

At the moment the cabin temperature varies between 5C, during the night and for a while in the morning up to about 15C by late afternoon/early evening. So in a way, we're almost living in a fridge. We'll have to see how it goes once spring comes and the temperatures start to warm up.

Boudicca

I guess I'm wary because people think the bag itself will do the trick. The bag will only keep things cool if they start off cool, and if you put ice in them (as you do). Once you open up the bag a few times and the things inside it get warm, they don't do that much good.

But a small bag used with ice is definitely a good idea. I will reduce my wariness.

h. bicycletus

don't eat cheese and meat. You can tour (and not tour) without it. . . .and yes, you can get plenty of protein.

Fissile

Two words: Slim Jim. The meat that lasts forever.

kayakdiver

I say twinkies.... yep. only twinkies.

tarwheel 

I used to carry cheeses and hard sausages on backpacking trips all the time, sometimes as long as a week. In warm temperatures they will be kind of oily, but they still taste fine and I never got sick from eating them. You also can buy canned bacon, chicken and other meats. Freeze-dried meats are also an option, although expensive and not as tasty.

cny-bikeman

Please spare the political correctness. I have been a ovo-lacto vegetarian (not proper enough I know) and still do not eat red meat but I will eat what I want. I don't recall the OP or anyone else asking for advice on protein intake, only what to do about his choice of food.

Machka 

In Australia you can buy small tins of tuna and salmon ... but not chicken or any other meats that I've seen. I love canned chicken for sandwiches, and I've been looking, but it's just not on the shelves. So what you can get will depend where you are touring. Nevertheless, Rowan and I almost always have a couple small tins of some sort of meat with us when we tour.

brianogilvie 

Yes, because it's too gross to eat! :-)

prathmann

If you're touring in the US and Canada it isn't all that hard to keep a limited amount of food refrigerated at all times. Put them in a *fully waterproof* container along with some ice and wrap the container in your spare clothing, sleeping bag, and other insulating materials you have along anyway and keep it near the center of your largest pannier. Replenishment for the ice can be found at most fast food places and convenience stores along the way since so many of them have soda fountains with ice dispensers. Hotels/motels are also good sources for free ice. If the food starts out cold from the store and you do a decent job of insulating then it shouldn't require much ice to last for a day at a time. Adjust the ice quantity as needed based on your experience.

texasdiver

go to the deli section of your grocery and get the pre-sliced and sealed cheeses and salami in the smaller packages. They'll keep longer if you leave them sealed so better to get a few small packages than one big one. They'll keep for days or longer and you don't have to fuss with cutting them up at your destination.

kayakdiver

Machka 

Acutally chicken (unless it is tinned or processed) might be one of the worst meats to carry on a tour. It seems to go off quickly, and when it goes off ... WOW ... you might want to toss your panniers!!

kayakdiver

I love the canned chicken while touring. Tossed in some pasta sauce or just thrown on a pita with some humus with cheese and I'm golden.

Other idea is to just tie him to your rack....

Machka 

I love canned chicken anytime. But no amount of staring at the stacks of canned meat here in Australia will cause canned chicken to suddenly appear. Odd that they don't have it. Good thing I like tuna too.

fuzz2050

a nice hard cheese will keep just about forever without refrigeration. I've taken hunks of it backpacking, and I run out long before it spoils (Think 2 weeks, I take a lot of cheese). Parmigiana, Pecorino Romano, or a similar grating cheese will work better, although most cheeses will last a surprising amount of time at warm temperatures, and when they do go bad, they won't go bad in harmful ways