titanium bike lock

[SCI]

My company (www.stantonconcepts.us) is in the business of coming up with innovative security solutions. As a result of some other work we were doing we came up with what may be a novel and better bike lock that's an alternative to chain, cable and U-Locks.

One version of the new lock design uses high strength, light weight, high flexibility grade 5 titanium, it’s not easy to cut, it’s very easy to store, it’s very light, it can secure and be secured to a wide variety of objects and the owner can choose his own padlock.

Here's a link with some photos of the prototype locks; http://www.stantonconcepts.us/bike%20lock.html from this page you can navigate to a preliminary data sheet and an image gallery with additional photos.

Any feed back is really appreciated.

[FlatSix911]

Looks interesting ...

Can you provide any information on weight and pricing?

[SCI]

The titanium shackle and lock bar weigh about 7.6 oz (216 gr) combined, the rotary shackle padlock shown in the picture weighs about 8.4 oz (238 gr), the 2 velcro lashing straps weigh about .2 oz (6 gr)...total weight ~ 1lb (465 gr).

We're currently doing some research to see if it is a viable product and to gauge the size of the market. Of course manufacturing and material costs are highly dependendent upon volume, but the retail price should be competive with other "high security" locks currently in the market place.

[DiegoFrogs]

What kind of guarantee will you offer? How does it compare to other locks?

[SCI]

Still doing market research; On a scale of 1(none) to 5(essential) how important is having an anti-theft guarantee for a bike lock?

[Ziemas]

Still doing market research; On a scale of 1(none) to 5(essential) how important is having an anti-theft guarantee for a bike lock?

Have a lock independently tested by ART and Sold Secure is essential for me.

[SCI]

What ART level would you require in a bike lock? Bike locks are typically level 1 or 2, level 3 to 5 are typically for motorcycles and scooters.

[Ziemas]

What ART level would you require in a bike lock? Bike locks are typically level 1 or 2, level 3 to 5 are typically for motorcycles and scooters.

All of my locks are ART four star and Sold Secure Gold. You'll find that flagship bike locks from major makers are of this level.

[KonAaron Snake]

If I'm looking at this correctly, the problem is no matter how good your lock is...it's still dependant on the quality of the pad lock. I trust bolts more than any padlocks I'm aware of, but I'm no expert.

[rekmeyata]

So the rod is made of grade 5 TI? TI 5 is the most commonly used TI, nothing special about it. Do you realize that TI stretches? and what happens when it's stretched to it's limit? SNAP Yup, just like TI spokes; and heating TI to above 430 degrees will weaken it significantly; in addition TI is easier to cut then high carbon steel and thus any bolt cutter will easily cut the TI bar your using. So a thief casing a bike with this lock on it will defeat the lock by either cutting it (the most common way) or using a jack and stretching it till it snaps, or use a small cutting torch. I'll stick to Kryptonite locks for my bike.

Just because something says it's made of TI doesn't turn it into a superman product that's indestructible.

[SCI]

Although we no longer use Grade 5 for the shackle it is the most commonly used Ti alloy. Ti has a combination of mechanical properties that are different than other ferrous and non-ferrous metals which work well for our application. All materials “stretch” to some degree when their yield strength is exceeded. In addition to several other benefits, titanium and titanium alloys have excellent elastic properties which make it a good choice for a flexible lock shackle.

Titanium is more easily formed at temperatures above 400 deg F, but I think this is an unlikely attack scenario.

Bolt cutters work by creating a very high localized stress concentration and the element under attack fails in tension. Round cross sections are more vulnerable to a bolt cutter attack than hexagonal or rectangular cross sections. Our titanium shackle is .125 thick and is available in different widths (.50, .75 and 1”). A rectangular cross section also greatly restricts the available angles of attack.

Using proper tools and techniques titanium can be sawed and drilled. However, it’s a lot easier when the part is rigid, well fixtured and in a shop environment. The titanium shackle is very ‘springy/bouncey’ and makes a sawing attack a long and frustrating effort particularly when the lock is securing a bike on the street.

Kryptonite/Ingersoll Rand is a fine company that manufactures quality products. Our goal is to provide an alternative to the current products in the market place; a bike lock that is secure, simple, versatile, elegant, light and easy to use and store.

I agree with your last statement, there is nothing that is indestructable just a matter of time and tools.

[rekmeyata]

I know your trying to sell your product, but the material being used is inferior to high carbon steel; this fact can easily be found out by doing a web search. You can spice it up anyway you want but in the end it's just all talk with no substance. And as far as sawing, it took me an hour to saw through 1/2 inch thick braided cable that is suppose to be the easiest to defeat of all locking material. Easy? My arms ached! So I can only imagine trying to saw through high carbon steel or your TI shackle. But regardless Ti is not as strong as high carbon steel whether it's being attacked by bolt cutters, a saw, a jack, cutting torch or whatever, ti will fail sooner. Again all this information is available on the internet if one took the time to search. Your lock may be great for low crime areas, I know my 5/8ths inch thick cable with a Abus disc lock is fine because of where I live.

You selling this product is strictly wrapped around that your using TI and TI is a magic word that a lot of people associate with superman type of strength, a miracle metal, it strikes awe in a persons mind...but it's not all that mythical!

Sorry.

[pwdeegan]

i currently carry about 18#s of high-quality steel locks. it works, but it sucks. a thief shouldn't know that the lock is steel or Ti---and hopefully the lock manufacturer wouldn't be so near-sighted as to advertise a potential weakness to hooligan passersby. but yeah, i'd definitely consider a lock that looked the part of steel, cost the same or less than my current steel, and had less of a weight penalty. the way i see it is: in this case, an enterprising thief would use the same high-ten steel cutting/breaking bits (i.e., my bike would have been gone regardless), but until then, i can benefit from the weight savings.

a guarantee is not as important (though it certainly helps peace of mind); the bike is primarily insured under my renter's insurance (specifically in the clause).

make it happen.

[rekmeyata]

You make a point about the weight, but then why not just use aluminum? It would be lighter still and would look like steel. Problem with using TI or AL as soon as a person started to attack either lock material it would give away faster. The thing about Kryptonite Evolution or the NY Fahgettaboudit locks is that bolt cutters have not been able to cut these!

I've always measured the degree of protection to the value of the item to be protected and the area where it will be locked up. When I went to college in Los Angeles I rode a beater to school and to work, and left the racing bike at home as not to take any chances. When I rode the racer some place and needed to lock it up in Santa Barbara CA I only used a thick cable with the same Abus Disc lock I have today and nobody bothered it. If your locking up an expensive bike and live in a questionable area then you should buy the most expensive lock you can buy, it doesn't make much sense to lock up a $6000 bike with a $45 lock just as it doesn't make much sense to lock up a $200 bike with a $150 lock.

[Joshua A.C. New]

I'm SCI's graphic designer and, awesomely, product tester. SCI has shuffled around the specific grade of titanium quite a bit from prototype to prototype for exactly the reasons you point out. There are questions of ductility versus hardness, for instance, where the objective is to make it a pain in the ass to cut, not simply to be hard.

It's also laminated with other materials that require different cutting tools. SCI there is a clever designer. He knows his stuff. Dude makes locks for military weapons lockers. I trust him with my Cannondale.

When we get a degree of polish out of the lock that we're confident of, we'll be submitting it to Kickstarter to get the first production round fired up. We'll be sure to let you know when it's up!

[rekmeyata]

Do let me know I would be interested in looking at it.

I don't know much about this lamination process, but the web site says they use kevlar. Not sure how well TI and Kevlar laminated together would perform but kevlar is just a fabric that works great at stopping ballistics but fails if a knife or an arrow were to hit it. Kevlar is used a flat protection in a lot of bicycle tires, but sharp pointy objects will penetrate kevlar, kevlar failed miserably at stopping goatheads when I lived in the Mojave desert of California.

The fabric by itself can be cut easily with just a simple pair of household scissors. Ti is easily cut with just a hack saw or bolt cutter. Combine the two together and what happens? I'm not sure. But it would seem, though I could be wrong, that if you can cut kevlar with scissors then when a hack saw or bolt cutters attacks the lock with the lamination process that the kevlar would fail to provide any protection whatsoever except stop a bullet! But I admit that I don't understand really what would happen if the two were laminated together.

Personally I think Ti and kevlar laminate would be better used in making a new bicycle frame tubing that would be lighter then carbon and stronger then TI. So maybe SCI needs to explore that a bit? Maybe not, because I don't understand that stuff either!!

And looking at the lock closer on the web site it appears that the kevlar is glued to the TI, is this correct? Wouldn't it be better, if possible, to melt the ti into the kevlar so the two becomes one? in other words the kevlar would actually be inside the ti thus the ti would have fibers in it.

[SCI]

We've just the launched the "TiGr: Titanium Lock As Cool As Your Bike" on www.kickstarter.com, check it out...

Project URL:
http://www.kickstarter.com/e/8Xsul/p...l-as-your-bike

John

[Joshua A.C. New]

... and the project is about to end! This Friday is the closing. Thanks to folks like the Bikeforumators, we've raised almost $100,000 toward the initial production run and are very, very pleased with the response. Thanks, guys!

[FlatSix911]

... and the project is about to end! This Friday is the closing. Thanks to folks like the Bikeforumators, we've raised almost $100,000 toward the initial production run and are very, very pleased with the response. Thanks, guys!

Congratulations.

Please keep us posted and consider a group buy for BF.

[Joshua A.C. New]

We broke $100k yesterday! It's really satisfying having so many people back our design! Just a few hours left before the project ends and we start to enact our practical plans for production.

Joshua A.C. Newman,
Passionate lover of construction

"The trouble with capitalism is capitalists." — William F. Buckley, Jr.

[Charles Ramsey]

I had a job cutting metal for an aerospace company including alloys I'm not allowed to talk about. The toughest one to cut was 17-4 Ph it turns into taffy when red hot and deforms away from the saw.

[robberry]

Lightweight is good, but it looks very large.

[Lasareath]

Lightweight is good, but it looks very large.

Since you're in Brooklyn you need one of these.

Here are some videos: http://www.TiGrlocks.com/

Check out the first one with this girl that reviews one. she has the 1.25" version, the .75" is slicker. The NYC thieves won't have tools on them to attack this lock. they'll just be bewildered when they see it. Most are using this little palm sized hydraulic jack. I forget the name but it'll break a U lock in seconds and fits in their front pockets.

[Ziemas]

Has anyone heard anything regarding the results of ART testing?

[Lasareath]

Has anyone heard anything regarding the results of ART testing?

I heard that the TiGr lock guys were having their locks tested by a 3rd party, not sure when we'll get those results. Maybe John or Joshua can report back with the status of the 3rd party report.