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  1. #301
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    i'd heard thru a grapevine leading back to the organization that the influence of forester had a lot to do with grinding cycling education to a virtual halt over at the LAB. Paralyzed it.

    LCIs are the ones leading the way in communities, at bike rodeos and offering safe cycling classes around the country nowadays, there's absolutely no call for johns disparagement of the League's cycling education efforts.
    I know that until recently "Effective Cycling" was required reading for LCIs. I also know that the classes emphasize vehicular cycling and down play the use of bike lanes, but focus on things like destination positioning.

    And again, to the best of my knowledge, the LAB classes are the only nation wide program out there for cyclist education. At one point I thought the Thunderhead Alliance might offer some training, but they seem to have dropped training... and have changed their name. http://www.peoplepoweredmovement.org/site/

    And LAB reform still doesn't offer anything other than a few local seminars... http://www.labreform.org/education/

    Interesting that all this fracturing between various organizations has done little for solidarity among cyclists. Is there any wonder that cyclists may have an "us or them" mentality?

    So bottom line, if education is the key to getting cyclists to act "as drivers of vehicles..." then that "key" is largely lost, except through LAB. And I doubt that cyclists are going out and seeking education through reading... "Effective Cycling" is effectively out of print.

    Effective Cycling: 6th Edition by John Forester (Paperback - Dec 29, 1992)
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    I know that until recently "Effective Cycling" was required reading for LCIs. I also know that the classes emphasize vehicular cycling and down play the use of bike lanes, but focus on things like destination positioning.

    And again, to the best of my knowledge, the LAB classes are the only nation wide program out there for cyclist education. At one point I thought the Thunderhead Alliance might offer some training, but they seem to have dropped training... and have changed their name. http://www.peoplepoweredmovement.org/site/

    And LAB reform still doesn't offer anything other than a few local seminars... http://www.labreform.org/education/

    Interesting that all this fracturing between various organizations has done little for solidarity among cyclists. Is there any wonder that cyclists may have an "us or them" mentality?

    So bottom line, if education is the key to getting cyclists to act "as drivers of vehicles..." then that "key" is largely lost, except through LAB. And I doubt that cyclists are going out and seeking education through reading... "Effective Cycling" is effectively out of print.
    There's much in what you write this time, Gene, but also some misapprehensions. To fix the last item first, I checked over the copy-edited files for Effective Cycling 7th ed. in August; there had been some kind of delay in The MIT Press's editorial office. I am very pleased at the copy-editing work done. Page proofs will be next. Publication is scheduled for next spring.

    You say you had some hope that Thunderhead Alliance would produce a useful cyclist training course. I think that that hope was a misapprehension, similar to your misapprehension about LAB. Both LAB and TA are advocates of greater volume of cycling regardless of competence; increasing the competence of cyclists is not only a sideline to their prime purpose, but it works against their prime purpose by suggesting that training is required to be safe on the road.

    There are some other efforts at training cyclists that are largely based on video presentations. The names Keri Caffrey, Dan Gutierrez, and Brian DeSousa are relevant. (DG and BD stress training of traffic engineers.)

    Both you and I (and many others) deplore the division in the cycling community and the "us or them" mentality. But just who are the participants in this "us or them" mentality? There's more than one set of uss and thems. There's vehicular cyclists vs cyclist-inferiority cyclists, there's environmentalists vs motorists, there's environmentalists and motorists vs vehicular cyclists, and there's motorists and government vs cyclists (undifferentiated). (In each case, motorists is short for the motoring organizations, not individual motorists.) This looks a horrible tangle and it operates as one. However, if we discard from consideration the non-cycling issues (such as foreign oil, suburbia, etc.), all of this tangle boils down to one issue. Should cyclists operate as drivers of vehicles or should they operate subservient to motorists, preferably on bikeways?

    If you notice, Thunderhead, LAB, environmentalists, and the majority of cyclists agree with motorists and government in this issue: cyclists should operate subservient to motorists, preferably on bikeways. These parties agree in that respect (though not in many others) because they see that they can use or control bicycle traffic to suit their purposes, none of which is the welfare of cyclists.

    I have concluded that the start of the division between cyclists goes back to the division between motorists and government vs cyclists, starting in or before 1940. That was when the motoring establishment created the fear of same-direction motor traffic and the laws enforcing it, both saying "Stay out of our way or we will crush you!". That started the motorists and government vs cyclists division, and permitted government to avoid teaching cyclists to obey the traffic laws for drivers of vehicles. But cyclists reacted by dividing into two groups: those who knew enough to obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles and those who preferred to ride subservient to motor traffic. However, government did not enforce its policy; it allowed cyclists to operate either by obeying those rules or by being subservient to motorists, so that the division between cycling groups was unimportant. But in 1970, government and motorists decided to crack down on cyclists by creating the bikeway system to enforce subservient cycling on all cyclists, and, shortly thereafter, the environmentalists and the bicycle advocacy organizations joined in against vehicular cyclists.

    Yes, it is deplorable that there is a division between cyclists who prefer subservience and bikeways and cyclists who prefer the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles. All the traffic-engineering evidence favors rules of the road over subservience and bikeways, and those cyclists who recognize this will not be amenable to being forced to ride in the subservient manner. With the combination of political forces supporting subservience and bikeways, it is politically impossible to force rules of the road cycling on all cyclists.

    The only way I see out of this dilemma is for American government to return to its historic cycling roots and explicitly allow both styles of cycling, rules of the road and subservience with bikeways. There's no need to enforce subservience or bikeways; that's what the majority want. What is required is permission to obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, which has always existed as a requirement except by being prohibited by the laws restricting cyclists. Until those laws are repealed, vehicular cyclists will be fighting to preserve their right to operate by the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles.

  3. #303
    Senior Member hotbike's Avatar
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    What if my Bicycle has one of these Slow Moving Vehicle Signs affixed to it? I guess I'm a middle-of-the-roader then? I do believe my Bike is a Vehicle, but I admit it's a slow moving one.

    I made this sign myself, with reflective tape and a half a sheet of foam poster board. I followed the pattern of a real slow-moving-vehicle sign, which was made by Ag-Tronic of Hastings, Nebraska.

    I will not ride my Bike on any State roads without one of these. Otherwise, I stick to County roads, town roads, village roads, etc.

    I guess I should show a daylight picture of the Bike before I installed the Sign:

    The secret is my Panniers extend behind the rear wheel.
    Last edited by hotbike; 08-21-11 at 12:51 PM. Reason: other picture - forgot

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