I recently read and article on a new bike company, I use the word bike company loosely here. Franco. Seems two guys said hey lets makes bikes....They go to China, say make this, paint that and we will sell it for big $$....I kinda miss the old days when an ex-champion who actually rode took his expereince to some old welder and said make this do that....while technology is great..I do ride carbon now, I do miss the old way, I am sorry to have sold my hand made edddy merckx......Just wondering if anyone else felt the same way.

Peace out ride strong!

I hit 45 mph yesterday on a long downhill. I am glad that the bike under me was made by a quality company that has a long track record of safety and reliablility.

I won't be the first person to by a "Franco" or an "Ebay special" but there are lots of people that will.

It takes time, effort, and lots of experience to make a really good bike whether it is carbon, AL, or Ti. The big brand names, at least the ones that actually race and has been making bikes for many years (not a name that has been resurrected), are able to offer you these kinds of bikes. Others......well I have no clue how they do it and say their bikes are that good.

Maybe the people in China and Taiwan that make the bikes know what they are doing, since they make them for the name-brand companies like Pinarello, Colnago, and Cervelo as well. The capital investment and engineering requirements to make CF is somewhat more than for a craftsman with a torch and a few machine tools. Maybe da Francos know this too.

Is this really much different for the big-name mainstream brands, the small boutique brands, and the no-name knockoffs? Who's really doing the R&D for these designs?

i don't think it's anything to worry about.

it's one thing when a company decides to make their product more cheaply and all it costs the customer is some aggravation....but these bike companies cannot afford to make low-quality bikes when it could cost the customers their lives. so, it's pretty safe to assume that if Bianchi and Specialized and Cannondale, etc are having their bikes made in china, that they're fine. they're no less authentic, they just don't have the cache of being made by Mario & Luigi.

I was very close to hitting 50mph on my eBay frame yesterday. I'm not worried about it.

I like having the cheap generic carbon, because it allows some people, like myself, to build up a quality bike for cheap. Of course not everyone is going to do that, and some may think that's taking a risk.

Of course they know what they are doing. We taught them how to make the damn things!

Do you think the Chinese & Taiwanese figured out how to lay up Carbon Fiber, or forge and draw aluminum all by themselves? We figured out all the secrets while these people were still trying to make good steel. So we taught them the tricks, how to build the machines to make the frames, where the source materials, etc. Now they build it for us because labor and overhead costs of having a factory there is cheaper. However, you don’t just draw up a frame, then build it, and then expect it to perform well. Maybe on a Beach Cruiser you can get away with that because Schwinn already perfected the design back in the 1960’s. But on a high performance road bicycle, there is a lot more to it that just building a frame. The tuning of that frame, and making sure all the components work together as a whole is what differentiates the big name brands that spend the time racing and tuning those same frames is where the difference lies.

In the long run the Chinese and Taiwanese will figure this out too. And they have up to a point and that’s how they are able to make the no-name brands perform. They know enough of the basics to make a CF, AL, and Ti frame work well, be stiff, reliable, resilient, and lightweight. But can anyone honestly say that a Linksey Ti frame is just as good as a Motobecane Le Champion Ti frame? Or a Trek Madone that Lance helped develop is as good as an Ebay CF frame? I don’t think so. There is going to be a difference and that may be enough to win TDf races or something, or a rich owner feel happy that his $5k bike is incredibly lightweight, incredibly strong and efficient, yet has a super smooth ride, and it feels more lively that another guy’s Bike’s Direct bicycle. I don’t know for sure because I don’t shop in that range. But many people and racers do know and that’s what keeps these big brand name bicycle companies in business.

FWIW: I have many friends who ride & race Franco bikes. They regularly place well and win in races. They're all very happy with them. Please don't disparage without knowledge.

Good to see jingoism is alive and well.

It appears that "WE" (whoever WE might be) have also figured out how to convert BS into marketing gold...

How is that frame? I saw the link in another thread you posted in for it, and I must say it looks good. is the quality where it should be, ride is right, stiff etc.?

I'm building up a bike myself, and I've looked on ebay with little success. Is there any chance you saw a 60cm+ ebay carbon frame? If I could find one, I'd snatch it up right away. The largest one I've found was 58cm.

Massive logic fail.

Massive history fail

In response...

The only other "nice" road bike I've had is a 2008 CAAD9. It's a much better frame than the CAAD9 in my opinion. It's lighter and stiffer. It seems to be more comfortable, but it's hard to tell as I'm using different wheels, tubes, and tires (which play a big role in comfort). I haven't ridden any nice brand name carbon bikes, but I'm assuming the ride is just as nice.

Also I'm not sure about the sizes. I don't think they make any bigger ones than 58cm if you can't find them.

Do enlighten us on this....please....

Aluminum was used heavily in aircraft in WW2 back when the chinese were making airplanes from wood.

Later on it was Carbon Fiber and then Titanium that was further developed for aircraft again in the 1960's and 1970's. this at the time when China was just figuring out how to make aluminum airplanes.

But hey, let's all just believe that Trek, Cannondale, Scott, Felt, et all, are just generic frames and the Chinese and Taiwanese taught themselves how to tune high performance bicycle frames on their own.

It's going to take a little more than BF to enlighten you. Achieving that will probably start with a virgin giving birth to a baby and 3 wise men coming from the East bearing carbon fiber gifts.

First, Taiwan is not China, despite what China thinks about it...

You're right of course.

I only work for one of the largest aluminum and Ti manufacturer and supplier in the world that supplies these materials from bicycles, to automobiles, to commercial and military vehicles and aircraft. So what do I know.....

Second, I didn't say anything about aluminum or titanium.

Taiwan is part of China. The Taiwanese like to THINK they are a seperate republic, but they're not. The CHINESE that ran to Taiwan back when China went communist is the same Chinese living in the mainland.

BTW, China is capable of manufacturing higher grade stuff than Taiwan. It used to be the other way around but not any more. They build airplanes and automobiles there for American, European, and Japanese manufacturers.

You're very very wrong. When you type a little part of me feels sad.

Lumping China and Taiwan together is like lumping Mexico and the US together. In both situations they used to both be one country and a ton of stuff is made in both places but you'd have to be a blind fool to think that they posses the same technological and industrial histories or capabilities.

As for carbon - the industrialists of Taiwan are the masters of carbon fiber and were the ones that developed the best layup, molding, resins, processes, etc. It's the US carbon makers that are more of the "startups" that had to "learn the hard way" - Zipp and EDGE come to mind.

OP - in general this is how things are done in this industry. I myself import carbon rims for some of the wheels I make. I also sometimes import hubs. They come from Taiwan. Not China. Does this fact mean that my wheels are somehow not based in the experience and knowledge I have gained from my years of racing?

Having worked with a "bicycle company" that matches what the OP is referring to I can tell you that the 2 guys doing it still put a ton of time and effort "designing" the geometry they want, aligning the component mix they want, and tweaking and tuning everything once it's stateside. In the OP's example this means that the taiwan and chinese factories are simply the "welder". What we neglected to mention was that in the old days the frame was still only as good as the welder was. Der.