New Sugino 110/74mm BCD super-compact double: "Compact Plus"

[Chris_W]

Ever since I saw this post on the Velo Orange blog early last year, I've been interested in this super-compact, integrated axle road crank from Sugino. I hadn't been able to find anything more about until I saw a link in a thread on the WW forum, and now Sugino have official info about it on their own web-page here.



They are calling it the Sugino Compact Plus+ OX801D. The outer ring BCD is 110mm, but the inner ring can either be a 110mm or 74mm BCD! Stock ring sizes offered will range from 30-46 to 36-52, but these are standard BCDs so lots of aftermarket rings are available to customize the combination (although see my next comment). It has a 24mm integrated axle (and so is hopefully compatible with Shimano HTII BBs, the system certainly looks very similar). Q-factor is a minimal 145mm. Crank lengths are 160-175mm. Weight is listed as 787 grams (that could be with the smallest chainrings, shortest cranks, and without BB, but that isn't clear).



Sugino announced in May that the crankset would be available in June (see the News section at the bottom of this page). But I've been unable to find many other mentions of it online. I'm going to Eurobike on Friday and Saturday, so I'll visit the Sugino booth and hopefully they can tell me more. Until then, do any of you have more info?

[Chris_W]

I had written the following in my first post:

"It'll be easy to customize the inner ring with something aftermarket even, but the outer ring attaches to the inside of the spider, so it should ideally be made for the middle position of a 110/74mm triple, TA make all sizes up to 46 teeth for that position, but Sugino might be the only source for anything larger."

But I've since changed my mind about this. If you're using a 110mm inner ring, then you could use an outer ring that was made for the outer position of a compact crank (110mm BCD), which means LOADS of options. It is only if you use the 74mm BCD for the inner ring that you would have to worry about the outer, and as I said, you'd then need to use an outer ring designed for the middle position of a 110/74 triple crank, which limits you to 46-teeth. Even so, you probably don't want anything bigger than 46 teeth if your only other ring is a 74mm BCD (32 teeth or less). Therefore, this is not the disadvantage that I originally thought it was.

In case anyone is wondering, the difference between rings made for the outer position and those made for the inner/middle position is the countersinking of the bolt holes - outer rings are countersunk on the outside and not on the inside. So if you mount an outer ring inside the spider (as on this crank) then the bolts will not be flush with the ring, they will instead stick out, and the chain will probably then rub on the bolts when the chain is at certain angles. However, if your inner ring is attached to the same bolts as the outer then this cannot be a problem, which is the case on this crank when using a 110mm BCD inner ring, but not when using a 74mm BCD inner.

Sorry to cause some confusion, please carry on admiring this pretty and ingenious crank.

[Barrettscv]

I hope these units are soon sold by someone in the U.S. The Velo-Orange unit is attractive, but depends on a square taper cartridge BB. This crankset uses the modern and superior "hollowtech" external BB design.

[unterhausen]

that looks pretty interesting

[bmike]

I hope these units are soon sold by someone in the U.S. The Velo-Orange unit is attractive, but depends on a square taper cartridge BB. This crankset uses the modern and superior "hollowtech" external BB design.

explain? i get 'modern'.
not sure i get 'superior'...

[TimeTravel_0]

superior, perhaps, in the sense of ease of maintenance particularly out on the road where one wouldnt have a crank puller, pin spanner, lockring tool or bb tool. one only needs a 5mm or 6mm allen with this type of setup. superior also, perhaps, in the sense of stiffness.

[bmike]

superior, perhaps, in the sense of ease of maintenance particularly out on the road where one wouldnt have a crank puller, pin spanner, lockring tool or bb tool. one only needs a 5mm or 6mm allen with this type of setup. superior also, perhaps, in the sense of stiffness.

unless you need to pull those bearings... which is what usually happens when you need to maintain a crank, no?

[Barrettscv]

unless you need to pull those bearings... which is what usually happens when you need to maintain a crank, no?

You just unscrew the "cups" on both sides & replace. A pair of Ultegra cups are $35 on eBay. A special G shaped wrench is needed.

[Barrettscv]

explain? i get 'modern'.
not sure i get 'superior'...

The "hollowtech" external BB design is stiffer than a square taper, but also much easier to install & remove. Also, the crankset should last forever no matter how often you remove & reinstall. A square taper interference fit will become progressively more problematic to reinstall.

I change from a 50t & 39t 130 bcd Shimano 105 standard crank to a 50t & 34t 130 bcd Shimano Ultegra bcd compact crank as often as I want. I just remove the left hand side crank arm, slide the crank off and reinstall. It takes 10 minutes and I don't have to adjust the derailleur’s.

[dscheidt]

superior, perhaps, in the sense of ease of maintenance particularly out on the road where one wouldnt have a crank puller, pin spanner, lockring tool or bb tool. one only needs a 5mm or 6mm allen with this type of setup. superior also, perhaps, in the sense of stiffness.

Superior in the amount of maintenance and number of bearings required, too.

[mander]

Have any of you fine gentlemen and ladies heard any rumors of when this crankset is actually going to come out, and how much it will cost? I needs new cranks and have been waiting around a bit for news about these.

[Chris_W]

I went to Eurobike for 2 days, but forgot to bring my cheat sheet with various questions for different manufacturers. Somehow this caused me to forget to check with the Sugino guys about this crankset. Doh!

I would try to contact Sugino to ask about pricing and availability, because there is very little mention of this crank online. The info I have seen suggests that it will be expensive: If you Google for "Sugino OX801D" then you do get a few Japanese websites, which can be translated with Google Translator, and this one claims a MSRP of 37,200 yen plus tax, which is about US$450, plus they seem to have some unboxing photos of a production unit. Someone on this Google Groups page (you need a Google account to view it) mentions an expected price of around $500.

[Barrettscv]

I went to Eurobike for 2 days, but forgot to bring my cheat sheet with various questions for different manufacturers. Somehow this caused me to forget to check with the Sugino guys about this crankset. Doh!

I would try to contact Sugino to ask about pricing and availability, because there is very little mention of this crank online. The info I have seen suggests that it will be expensive: If you Google for "Sugino OX801D" then you do get a few Japanese websites, which can be translated with Google Translator, and this one claims a MSRP of 37,200 yen plus tax, which is about US$450, plus they seem to have some unboxing photos of a production unit. Someone on this Google Groups page (you need a Google account to view it) mentions an expected price of around $500.

Ouch! At that price, I'll stay with a triple.

[illwafer]

sounds like my sugino AT crank i got for $5

110/74. can go down to 36 on the middle.

edit: i guess it can go down to 30.

[jet-flashman]

So at $500 you could buy 1 Velo Orange crank set and 10 square taper bottom brackets....I think I'll take my chances having the small chain ring damaged so bad I would have to pull the crank arm.

[mander]

Owwie... Maybe I'll just get the VO's. Thanks for the info Chris!

BTW, I recently modified a set of 94 BCD Sugino XD mountain triple cranks so that they can be used on a short bb to yield a 43.5mm road chainline with reasonable q factor (this was not easy as their standard chainline is out past 50 iirc) . I'm currently running them on one of my bikes as a 46-29 wide range double... works great.

[mangosalsa]

Or go out and find an old Super Maxy crank and run nearly anything you want. Currently mine is 48-34.
Loving that low low low Q
Super-Maxy..jpg

[TimeTravel_0]

Alex's Cycles in Japan is selling them (or can order them).
Price: 35000JPY + postage to US (2800JPY)

I hope a North American distributor picks these cranks up. I would imagine the price would drop, no?

[mcyak]

Not to get into a p'n match.
I have a stronglight compact double on my 1991 Paramount.
I ordered aftermarket stronglight chainrings (a 33t a 46t and a 48t) without the ramps and pins.
I've had little trouble using these with the downtube friction shift setup I still have.
I'm uncertain how well the chain would engage with the 10spd ultegra brifters I have on my other bike(the shift being substantially quicker)
I've used the 46/33 for over 10K with no problems or hangups or signs of wear on the chainrings.
I saw the link to this crankset on Velo News (while googling to see whether chainrings lower than 33t were available/would work on a 110bcd setup)
My only real concern is that the 10speed ultegra 6600 series derailleur and brifter wouldn't work on this crank setup with out 'tweaking'
Other than that, the Q factor and design of these cranksets looks great.
Might be one of those purchases that equates to a decade of cycling ease.

[leaping_gnome]

Mander

How extensive is the modification to your XD?

Owwie... Maybe I'll just get the VO's. Thanks for the info Chris!

BTW, I recently modified a set of 94 BCD Sugino XD mountain triple cranks so that they can be used on a short bb to yield a 43.5mm road chainline with reasonable q factor (this was not easy as their standard chainline is out past 50 iirc) . I'm currently running them on one of my bikes as a 46-29 wide range double... works great.

[Chris_W]

UPDATE: This crankset is now available in North America through a distributor called Merry Sales. Soma Fabrications are selling it online here, and I found a blog posting about it here. Unfortunately, price is about US$530-550 (with BB), plus they're only importing the 50/34 and 48/34 versions, which seems pointless to me - there are many other cranksets available with those combinations, so why not sell this crankset with a more unique chainring combination like 46/30? However, making it more available is at least a start.

[cheg]

The "hollowtech" external BB design is stiffer than a square taper, but also much easier to install & remove. Also, the crankset should last forever no matter how often you remove & reinstall. A square taper interference fit will become progressively more problematic to reinstall.

Yes, the square tapers are problematic. I've only gotten 25 years out of my TA Pro Vis 5 (so far)

[Barrettscv]

Yes, the square tapers are problematic. I've only gotten 25 years out of my TA Pro Vis 5 (so far)

I have 38 years on these cranks, see below. That doesn't make them as stiff or as easy to install & remove as a modern crank.

[hillrat]

It's out. It's very nice. Unfortunately it's expensive, and you have to find someone whom you trust to ship it from Japan if you want the interesting ring combinations. (Globalization should make this possible, but I haven't tried to return anything.) Be aware that the front derailleur has to come down to accomodate a 30-tooth ring. Racing frames with funny tube shapes or braze-on mounts may not work. I got it with 30/46 to attempt MtWashington. I have a clamp-on derailleur on round seat tube. It works fine. Unfortunately for my purposes it's rather heavy. No BB-funny options. It's a touring or climbing crank. On a fast group ride I spin out bad if the road tilts down. The 30/46 split is really wide. If I downshift to the 30 in front, I usually want to upshift 1-2 cogs in back.

[Chris_W]

It's good to hear the opinion of someone who has actually used the crank. I mentioned in the first post that the official weight is 787 grams, can you please confirm that this is accurate, and whether it includes the bottom bracket or not?

A lighter-weight solution is made by Lightning Cranks, see here. That is a super-light carbon crank with interchangeable spider, with one of the options being a 94mm double spider, onto which you can mount anything down to a 29 tooth inner and up to a 50 tooth outer - I ran it as a 29/46 for a while. They offer bottom brackets to fit almost any frame from BB30 to threaded BSA, but there have been several reports of problems with the cranks creaking, and I am still trying to resolve this problem myself.