How dare you talk to us like that.Originally Posted by AlexZ
How dare you talk to us like that.
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ahh isnt this the whole point of racing? Bents in the tour de france would settle it!
The OP started the thread with a mildly inflammatory post, then disappeared for half a year. He then posted once more to stir things up.
Troll-like behavior? Hmmmmmm.........
At least there hasn't been talk of Zombies in the thread.
RANS V3 (steel), RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
...Until now!!! Why, oh why, did you have to bring up zombies??? That's like mentioning the p*nct*r* fairy. Everyone grab their shotguns, here they come!
Since I bought the Metaphysic, I've matched DF riders up hills that previously they'd beaten me on. On the P-38, I'd get mildly dropped - I was usually able to pull them back on the other side. Unfortunately I haven't ridden a Corsa to know what it's like, but the Bachettas do seem to have a short stiff crank tube.
It's just my personal experience that I can 'dance' on a DFs pedals when climbing but on my bents it's sit and suffer. However, recently I've discovered that with the hard shell seat reclined at 24 degrees, I can bridge my back with my butt off the seat and spin the pedals.
I am becoming a bit less dogmatic about bents and climbing - I seem to be doing better with the hard shell seat as I suppose one would expect.
But so many bents will NOT climb because they're just too flexy and I won't change my mind on that.
I also think Beemerman may have underestimated how long it takes to acclimatise. You can't build recumbent conditioned muscles in a few weeks. I suspect it does take years - just as it does with DFs. I've noticed that my average speeds have increased every year and every year I'm a year older, so something is improving and it's not my age (or my attitude!)
I ride a bent - I love my bent, but alas I think a solo recumbent would get thrashed by the paceline. There are so few recumbents that seeing them in a paceline of their own to compare them is rare and in any case, the forward cranks prevent them drafting closely.
Take a look at the RAAM results to see how recumbents rate against DFs. They don't dominate - why not?
One of the fastest recumbents is the Velokraft NoCom and that team didn't do very well because (if I recall correctly) they didn't have good enough forward vision. The P-38/F-40 Lightning team won it - but P-38's climb!!! Tim Brummer, the designer of the P-38 stated (I think) that aerodynamically the P-38 was equal to a paceline of 3 DFs. Once you negate the aero benefit of a recumbents, it's only got comfort going for it. That's why I hate tail winds!
What are the basic features of recumbents? Aerodynamics and comfort. I've come to the personal conclusion that my Metaphysic recumbent is 'just' a very comfortable bike with the aerodynamics of a high end DF TT bike with the rider on the aerobars.
Recumbent owners touchy? Well.... possibly. I did very narked by sneering DF roadies but I have to agree that there can be a certain religious zeal around bent owners about the superiority and that's not going to go down well with a DF rider that can ride up a hill at twice the speed because
A: The bent owner is too fat and or too old
B: The bent has more than 10 mm of flex in the bottom bracket
C: The bent weighs twice as much
All generalisations of course - there are 8 kg recumbents with less than 3 mm of flex ridden by fit guys/gals under 30. It's just I haven't come across them.
It's so true that it doesn't matter what you ride as LONG as you ride.
Genshu - you're right - it's about who gets to the coffee shop first - everything else is a smokescreen.
I don't think so.
Recumbents do well in long solo events like RAAM.
Mass start stage races, I'm not so sure. Most of the crucial moments involve somebody breaking away from the peloton, sprint finishes, or breaking contact with competitors uphills. All three involve the quick acceleration that standing on the pedals provides.
'bents in the TdF is an interesting question, which is even better since it will never be settled. My experience with fit 'bent riders is that they really don't have that much of an advantage on a ride over mixed terrain. But intellectually, it seems clear that the 'bents would win the TdF unless the race was rigged with a lot of uphill. My guess is there would be a pack of 'bents and a pack of DF, and the split would occur early in each stage.
velopaul
Or look at the 4 man RAAM from 2009? The Rans team won, and not only did they win they increased their lead comming up the west side of the Rocky Mountains.
who says bents cant climb?
Last edited by rydabent; 02-21-12 at 11:00 AM.
From what I've been able to read, the hour record wasn't the only issue in the 1934 decision to ban recumbents. Faure was winning other races, despite being an obviously second-tier cyclist. The more he won, the louder the complaints from the other cyclists were. So in that respect, how racing recumbents would fare has already been answered.
In a more modern setting, 'bents wouldn't be able to win anything unless they attracted some younger talent that was willing to train exclusively on the platform; and that just isn't going to happen because under today's rules choosing the recumbent platform is the equivalent of murdering your cycling career.
All of which is getting pretty far afield from the original contention that *most* recumbents sold are not capable of anything near that level of performance.
If a world class cyclist trained on a bent, he would win more than his share of races with DF cyclist. The only place he might not win is a race that is totally up a steep mountain.
the IHPVA types in fully streamlined machines are trying to catch up
to Sam Whittingham's rate of speed, 82.33 mph , at last count..
I went on a group ride today where all the cyclists were pretty evenly matched. There was one bent and one tandem. On level ground it just depended on the direction of the wind. With a tail wind all was good. With a headwind, my bent and the tandem left the others behind. Downhill, I gave the tandem a serious run for the money. I'm not confident of high speed cornering so they had me there. On straight downhills I took on the tandem pretty well.
Going uphill without momentum, I worked as hard as the tandem to keep up.
Overall I thought the DF riders were surprised how comparable I was to them.
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Could be way off but I thought i heard somewhere that Greg Lemond won the TDF on a bent and bents where banned after that. Blazing pedals is the 1934 reference about that bent in the tdf? Anyway it seems to be that racing creates design innovations, as it does in car racing. That is why it seems that different bike designs should be allowed to compete together to settle it. Not that I have ever raced, but hey I'm just considerin on this web site.
Excellent point. Whatever it was.
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As far as I know, the only connection between recumbents and Greg LeMond is a picture of him on a trike, taken at some bike show. He certainly never raced using one. Most recumbent riders are already familiar with the story of how recumbents came to be non-bicycles in the eyes of the UCI, which is the governing body for bicycle racing. Here is a good write-up of it.
http://www.cyclegenius.com/history.php
Edit:I can't seem to find the pic of him sitting on the trike, but he was also captured taking a parking lot test-ride on a RANS.
Apparently he was pretty impressed with 'bents, because he now markets a recumbent trainer.
Last edited by BlazingPedals; 02-23-12 at 07:55 PM. Reason: add pics
Greg Lemond. Would appear to be post-racing career. Looks to be his first ride on a 'bent, judging by the helping hand and look on his face.
RANS V3 (steel), RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the recent Sebring 12/24 hour race and 49 year old Maria Parker winning the RAAM 24 hour qualifier beating all women AND men on a recumbent.
Dennis T
Recumbent riders thin skinned. When someone smirks at a fully kitted racer boy, they sometimes get down right ticked off. They are way too vain. They are a lot like the sun deck charlies that set around the ski lodge, but seldom ever seen on the slopes.
A bit too strong, I think. Most fully kitted racer boys are too busy dropping my butt to get ticked off at the likes of me.
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Thanks for that link. I'd heard rumors, but now I've got ammunition. Forwarded to some bent buddies. My own limited experience verifies the conclusion of thousands of other bent riders and the facts in the article. That being said, I do recognize the 'image' issue amplified ad nauseum by the cycling industry, and some inherit DF advantages, low cost and weight being at the forefront. I have trained myself to keep my mouth shut unless asked.
The bicycle is one of the great inventions of mankind. Delights children, challenges young men to feats of daring, and turns old men into boys again
The grin on Greg's face is saying, "Ah, I can ride a bicycle without my butt hurting"!Greg Lemond. Would appear to be post-racing career. Looks to be his first ride on a 'bent, judging by the helping hand and look on his face.
I got the chance to ride with Greg back in '96 when the company I was working for signed him to market a line of road bikes. Greg being the consumate professional cyclist, went up the mountain hanging onto jersey pockets and seat posts. With that said, there was a reason for it. There had been a "wee bit" of drinking the night before, one or two small sips of adult beverage might have been consumed. As a former Marine, I was amazed at his ability to pound back shot after shot, I'd not seen that kind of drinking since my time in the Corps.
Semper Fi
The NoComm team didn't do well because one of the riders went down and messed up a knee.
Silver Eagle Pilot
Ah Yes. I'd forgotten about the X-Stream. Note that it has a braced BB - there is no floppy crank tube. It's proven to be a good climbing design. I'd love to 'try' one but alas I'd have to steal the money, then steal some more for S&S couplers and freight.
There hasn't been any noise about it on BROL in spite of it's sound design and good performance.
Yes. Once again, a recumbent design that is superior to many. Maybe the words frame stiffness are getting through to bent designers (Er... that's recumBENT designers not designers that are bent
Us sensitive recumbent riders (!) are getting a bit spoiled for choice!
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