Industrial Design School Research - Need Your Help!

[gnarlyhat]

Hello! I'm brand new to the forums, but have been biking pretty much as far back as I can remember (thank you mom for getting me on two wheels at an early age). I'm a third year industrial design student at Virginia Tech (go Hokies!), and for my design research class have been directed toward a focus on bicycle saddles (seats). If you could please take just a couple minutes and fill out this short (10 question, mostly multiple choice) survey, I would greatly appreciate it. It's my hope that the information not only informs my direction in class, but also my future design work in the biking industry (that's the dream anyway).

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BBMSPQ8

Please feel free to share the link on Facebook or forward to friends.

Ride on!

- Derek

[gnarlyhat]

Oh, and feel free to bump this thread when you take the survey, to help keep the awareness up (the survey will only be open one week). Thanks.

[Machka]

Oh look ... yet another design student focusing on bicycle stuff.

Here are some questions for you ...

1) What's the longest distance you've ever ridden?
2) What's the longest distance you ride each month?
3) What kind of distance do you ride in a year?
4) What types of cycling do you do? Such as mountain biking, road racing, randonneuring, touring, etc?
5) What kind of conditions do you ride in?
6) What kind of bicycles do you have?
7) Have you ever taken the time to get your bicycles fitted?
8) What type of cycling clothing do you wear?
9) What type of saddles have you used and have you made any personal observations regarding their comfort?
10) What improvements do you think you'd like to make to a bicycle saddle?

[AlphaDogg]

This is what I wrote for the last question:

As long as a saddle fits the cyclist (is of the correct width), it should not be uncomfortable. After about a week of serious cycling (15+ miles per day), a hard saddle should feel really comfortable. There is nothing wrong with saddle design.

[CaptCarrot]

I'm sorry, but I will not fill in the survey as I cannot honestly answer most of the questions - I do not do long enough rides..

I think Macka has a good idea on some questions though.

1. What's the longest distance you've ever ridden? ~3 miles
2. What's the longest distance you ride each month? right now 0, but soon will be ~3 miles
3. What kind of distance do you ride in a year? Right now 0, but once I start commuting again will probably total ~1000
4. What types of cycling do you do? Such as mountain biking, road racing, randonneuring, touring, etc? Leisure/Cruising and Commuting
5. What kind of conditions do you ride in? Mostly dry but am equipping for all weather, before I could drive I did ride in all weather including snow (which is very rare in the south of the UK)
6. What kind of bicycles do you have? Right now a 10+ year old full sus MTB (Raleigh Max Zero-G) and a 2 year old (just aquired) mini velo (Cannondale Hooligan 1)
7. Have you ever taken the time to get your bicycles fitted? No
8. What type of cycling clothing do you wear? Casual or work uniform, maybe with waterproofs if required.
9. What type of saddles have you used and have you made any personal observations regarding their comfort? Mostly whatever came with the bike, although I do remember my mums old bike had a huge sprung saddle that was really comfortable. Have tried a gel saddle, but I don't rate it that much.
10. What improvements do you think you'd like to make to a bicycle saddle? Pass- sorry.

[AlphaDogg]

I filled in the survey because I think I have ridden enough to be qualified.
1) What's the longest distance you've ever ridden? 55 miles
2) What's the longest distance you ride each month? 35 miles
3) What kind of distance do you ride in a year? 2000 miles
4) What types of cycling do you do? Such as mountain biking, road racing, randonneuring, touring, etc? Hybrid riding on paved trails.
5) What kind of conditions do you ride in? Sun, light rain
6) What kind of bicycles do you have? Hybrid
7) Have you ever taken the time to get your bicycles fitted? No, I have done it myself.
8) What type of cycling clothing do you wear? Bib shorts, jersey, gloves, legwarmers, drawstring shorts, warm-ish compression shirt (not cycling, but works very well for cycling)
9) What type of saddles have you used and have you made any personal observations regarding their comfort? WTB Rocket V saddle (very comfortable, but too expensive so I returned it to the LBS) and a Specialized MTB saddle which is just as comfortable as the WTB saddle, but was free.
10) What improvements do you think you'd like to make to a bicycle saddle? None. They are perfectly designed, IMO.

[gnarlyhat]

Didn't know it was all that common (I'm the only bike nut in ID at VT that I know of). But your survey sounds fun too so...

1) What's the longest distance you've ever ridden? About 25 miles (trail riding in Maine). Haven't gotten into pure road biking... yet.
2) What's the longest distance you ride each month? Honestly don't know. Usually it's on a set of trails, whatever feels/looks good to ride, and between 2-3 hours.
3) What kind of distance do you ride in a year? Guessing again, but biking every day to school (even through the winter), and my evening/weekend rides... 1750 miles?
4) What types of cycling do you do? Such as mountain biking, road racing, randonneuring, touring, etc? Mountain biking for the love of it, daily commuting to school and around town.
5) What kind of conditions do you ride in? Everything but torrential downpours.
6) What kind of bicycles do you have? Trek Y-22, Gary Fisher Kaitai, K2 Proflex 4000 (need to sell to pay for the...), Trek 69er (...on the way), and a Peugeot frame waiting to be built up into a SS over the winter.
7) Have you ever taken the time to get your bicycles fitted? Depends on what you mean. Having done a full anthropometric study as part of a design class, I know that I am, for the lack of a better term, a freak (relative to average American proportions). So to get my bikes to "fit", I usually go with a large frame, and then swap/adjust everything as needed (stem, handlebars, cranks, seat, seatpost, etc.).
8) What type of cycling clothing do you wear? Relatively little. Which is where being a designer (and hence concerned a bit more with fashion) often interferes with function-specific gear (which tends to be overly "sporty"). Also, while I am an older student, I am still a student, and don't have nearly as much money as I'd like to buy good gear.
9) What type of saddles have you used and have you made any personal observations regarding their comfort? My Big Wheels saddle was pretty darn comfortable. And that's not a joke. I've been seriously thinking about why saddles seem to just add more padding when the shape in general (convex as opposed to concave) strikes me as rather odd. Not saying I've solved the problem yet, but working on it. And my favorite saddle thus far has been the WTB Laser V. In general, ever since saddles added the "love channel", comfort hasn't been a huge issue for me (back in the day though, it numbed my junk something terrible).
10) What improvements do you think you'd like to make to a bicycle saddle? See above. And have an integrated bottle opener.

How'd I do?

[AlphaDogg]

And have an integrated bottle opener.

Think about it. Do you really want a sharp object like that so close to your personal region?

[CbadRider]

Moved from General Cycling to the Survey forum.

[gnarlyhat]

Think about it. Do you really want a sharp object like that so close to your personal region?

Definitely not. Which is why I was imagining it to be under the seat, and the type without sharp edges.

[gnarlyhat]

Moved from General Cycling to the Survey forum.

Thanks, and sorry about that. Didn't know there was a survey forum.

[unterhausen]

the only reason to design a new saddle is to scam people that don't know any better. There are pros working on this problem constantly, some non-cycling college student is not going to do a better job than the people at fizik.

[gnarlyhat]

Oh look ... yet another design student focusing on bicycle stuff.

Quick thought on this - my personal reason to focus on "bicycle stuff", aside from my years of experience and personal enjoyment, is that it is a field that pretty much has it all (in terms of design opportunity).

Apparel, some gear and shoes (soft goods design experience) = check
Health related (huge problem here in the US) = check
"Green" industry (reduction of pollution, fossil fuel dependency and congestion) = check
Cutting edge material use = check
Mechanical and electronic components = check
Growing industry = double check

To me, it's just a great field to be in, with plenty of opportunities for diverse product offerings.

[gnarlyhat]

the only reason to design a new saddle is to scam people that don't know any better. There are pros working on this problem constantly, some non-cycling college student is not going to do a better job than the people at fizik.

And it's a good thing my professors aren't expecting me to design something better than people at Fizik. To clarify, this survey is part of a primary research requirement, and is to help me learn part of the design research process. That said, my goal is to be better at design than the people at Fizik. Every product can, and will be, improved. It's just the way the world works.

[Flying Merkel]

The Brooks B17 was first produced in 1898. Many consider it the perfect bicycle saddle, myself included. Making a new and improved bicycle saddle is much like designing a new type of claw hammer. After over 2,000 years, there has only improvements in details, not in fundamentals.

[gnarlyhat]

The Brooks B17 was first produced in 1898. Many consider it the perfect bicycle saddle, myself included. Making a new and improved bicycle saddle is much like designing a new type of claw hammer. After over 2,000 years, there has only improvements in details, not in fundamentals.

Ah, Brooks. Such an object of desire. To this day, I haven't ridden one, but have seen quite a few around campus. Everyone I've met that has one has said just about the same thing - it's near perfect. In fact, to me one of the greatest things about their design is that is built to last (and it just looks so darn classy). Here in the good 'ol USA, with the Walmartization of goods and consumer mindsets, everything is disposable. That is, without a doubt, not the type of design work I will be doing. I could write a book as to why (and hope to some day).

As for radical improvements on their design - you're right. Odds are there won't be, other than in the details (as manufacturing and materials continue to develop). But as a designer, if I had a firm, and Brooks came to me and said, "We want you to improve our saddle as much as possible, while changing our classic style and feel as little as possible." I'd not only eagerly accept, but I believe I could find a way to make it better, if only slightly. And I am not an optimist by nature! As a designer, you just have to be, or you won't make it very far.

Ugh, and a big personal thank you for reminding me about Brooks saddles. Because I just poured over their website, watched a behind the scenes on one of their ad photoshoots, and want one even more now. Darn you Brooks for selling me promises of beauty, adventure and bicycles!

[gnarlyhat]

Bump for a few more participants and/or feedback!

[babochka]

done, gnarlyhat

[gnarlyhat]

done, gnarlyhat

Thanks, babochka.

And I want to say thanks again for everyone's input. I closed the survey this evening, and looking at the information am confident I'll be able to apply it well to my research paper. That said, I particularly enjoyed the comment, "give up now, it's the most studied subject in the world." How boring would this life be without the occasional a-hole?