Cross Check: help deciding size, please

[SurlyLaika]

I am over 5'10" and have relatively long legs, 86cm PBH, and long arms and I run a 76cm seat height from top of seat to center of BB on all of my bikes. I ride a 56cm road bike (classic types) and I ride a 54cm Cross Check which fits me exactly like my typical 56/57mm classic road bikes. If the OP is 5'7"" I suspect a 54 would be too large for him.

Of course, I have no illusions of having the bar top higher than the saddle nor can I have any reason to do so. I like my saddle high and my bars low and my bike tight. The CC is not a good choice for a high bar top relation to the saddle without buying a frame that is otherwise too large--by a bunch.

The Cross Check short head tube results from the relatively high bottom bracket (as is typical of cycle cross bikes for pedal clearnace--it is a cycle cross bike--right) and the lower than normal top tube (for stand over on uneven ground--it is a cycle cross bike---right) compressing the triangle and thus the shorter head tube.

I've been thinking about this actually. My handlebars are lower than my seat by about an inch with 30mm of spacers. (just a hand measurement) I actually do think it's a good commuter but I'm beginning to realize that isn't so great for comfort-mode. I've been trying to set my seat level, to take pressure off my hands and neck but when I lean forward to my lower bars, the saddle's nose naturally presses against my taint. When I tilt the saddle lower, I slide forward a little bit with more pressure on my hands and neck unless I'm pedaling hard and grabbing the bars which makes it a fun, aggressive, hands-on ride! Just my thoughts. Solid commuter, but not as comfy as the LHT I've been trying to make it. I think I can accept it for what it is now.

BTW, +1 on the 54 being too long for the OP. A 52 would probably suit him better. A 54 will still work, though.

[Loose Chain]

I've been thinking about this actually. My handlebars are lower than my seat by about an inch with 30mm of spacers. (just a hand measurement) I actually do think it's a good commuter but I'm beginning to realize that isn't so great for comfort-mode. I've been trying to set my seat level, to take pressure off my hands and neck but when I lean forward to my lower bars, the saddle's nose naturally presses against my taint. When I tilt the saddle lower, I slide forward a little bit with more pressure on my hands and neck unless I'm pedaling hard and grabbing the bars which makes it a fun, aggressive, hands-on ride! Just my thoughts. Solid commuter, but not as comfy as the LHT I've been trying to make it. I think I can accept it for what it is now.

BTW, +1 on the 54 being too long for the OP. A 52 would probably suit him better. A 54 will still work, though.

You might look at a different saddle to protect your "taint" whatever that might be, lol . Just like bikes have different geometry, so do the pinky squashy parts that ride them, ha, ha.

Yeah, I think he needs a 52 also.

As a commuter, I think the CC is more of an aggressive sports commuter but still with tank like solidity and the versatility for multi-mission needs.

LC

[thenomad]

5'9" and have a 54cm CC.
Top tube is too long for me and it's a short headtube so I have the saddle forward, 90mm stem and some good spacers on the steerer as most do. If it were a 54 square frame i'd have a better saddle position and a longer stem. So far I have it dialed in and still have a bit of saddle to bar drop.

[thook]

Like I said, I didn't find the 56cm to be that far off for me. I don't know how you guys like to fit on your bikes, but I really cannot see how the 54cm is going to be too big. I guess we'll see. It was suppose to be at the shop by Monday. Hopefully by Saturday.

[thenomad]

all depends on body style. Long arms long legs then youll appreciate the long reach.

[cs1]

I'm 5'11 and I'm riding a 56cm Cross Check. I don't race it and I like to be comfortable over my 10 to 20 mile commutes. The top tube just feels too long for me. I'm making my 56cm an upright commuter with a shorter stem and mustache handlebars and sizing down to a 54 for a drop bar road bike. Again, I'm 5'11 and I have pretty long arms. And a 56 just doesn't feel very comfortable over long distances. If I were you, I wouldn't even consider the 56. I'd go with a 54 or even a 52. But if your riding style is more aero, go with a 54. If it's more comfort and distance oriented, go with a 52.

Fit is so individual. I'm 5' 9" but have really long legs and arms. I ride with a 22" TT because it fits better. Anything smaller feels really cramped.

OTH, I was thinking about a CC but had the same reservations as the OP about a 54 or 56. I guess it would be best to find a shop with both in stock. Good luck to the OP on his quest.

[thook]

Thanks. I do believe I'll be just fine. When I asked my friend that owns the bike shop, and whom I trust, about the size he said he'd tell me if he thought I was seriously making the wrong choice.

One thing I really don't understand about some of the replies here is on the subject of bar to saddle height relationship. I've seen over a dozen internet pics of folks' CC's with bar at saddle level and, in some cases, a bit higher. Admittedly, some with bar tops higher than the saddle look a bit odd with all the spacers and such, but obviously it's a doable situation. Otherwise, I doubt I'd be seeing the pics as they are. Definitely everything's a personal preference, but I just don't get how this whole idea of the short head tube has any effect on being able to raise the handlebars that high. Like I said, it's obviously being done.

[Loose Chain]

Thanks. I do believe I'll be just fine. When I asked my friend that owns the bike shop, and whom I trust, about the size he said he'd tell me if he thought I was seriously making the wrong choice.

One thing I really don't understand about some of the replies here is on the subject of bar to saddle height relationship. I've seen over a dozen internet pics of folks' CC's with bar at saddle level and, in some cases, a bit higher. Admittedly, some with bar tops higher than the saddle look a bit odd with all the spacers and such, but obviously it's a doable situation. Otherwise, I doubt I'd be seeing the pics as they are. Definitely everything's a personal preference, but I just don't get how this whole idea of the short head tube has any effect on being able to raise the handlebars that high. Like I said, it's obviously being done.

Yes, you can get the bar tops up level to the saddle by:

1. Buy a frame that is too large and which will have a hugely too long top tube. The 54cm Cross Check has a 22 inch (56cm) center to center top tube, it is in fact a 56cm frame size.

2. You can stack spacers on top of the head tube, make sure the shop does not cut the fork steering tube too short.

3. You can use a bar stem with a greater angle to raise the bar.

4. Or ride with the saddle too low.

5. Or some combination of those above.

It is true that many people recommend dropping to the next lower size from a road bike to a cross bike. Problem is that Surly sizes their bikes 2cm smaller than they are. A 54cm Cross Check is actually a 56cm bike. The 56 cm is actually a 58cm. The 52cm is actually a 54 etc.

If you ride a road bike that measures a 56cm top tube/56cm seat tube then you should get a 54cm Cross Check if you want it to feel like your road bike and for racing cyclecross you might consider a 52cm size in the Cross Check.

I know people are fixated on seat tube length but it is the top tube that really determines fit. If I measure the seat tube on my 54cm Cross Checks, center to top, it measures 57cm. Like i said earlier the Cross Check has a higher bottom bracket and a low top tube considering he length of the top tube. In other words, the frame is squished a little. This was done on purpose I assume to produce a bike with a relatively aggressive stance.

If you want an upright bike (that actually fits) that you can sit bolt upright on then the Cross Check is not your bike.

[thook]

Yes, you can get the bar tops up level to the saddle by:

1. Buy a frame that is too large and which will have a hugely too long top tube. The 54cm Cross Check has a 22 inch (56cm) center to center top tube, it is in fact a 56cm frame size.

Maybe you didn't realize, but yes...I'm aware of the TT length compared to the given Surly framesize. If the TT is indeed 22 inches, that exactly the same length of the TT on my road bike that I fit quite comfortably on.

2. You can stack spacers on top of the head tube, make sure the shop does not cut the fork steering tube too short.

I'll be the one cutting the steering tube. So, no problem there.

3. You can use a bar stem with a greater angle to raise the bar.

4. Or ride with the saddle too low.

5. Or some combination of those above.

I'm sure I'll be using a combination of several things given above. The exception being getting a frame way too big.

It is true that many people recommend dropping to the next lower size from a road bike to a cross bike. Problem is that Surly sizes their bikes 2cm smaller than they are. A 54cm Cross Check is actually a 56cm bike. The 56 cm is actually a 58cm. The 52cm is actually a 54 etc.

Right. This exactly why I'm getting the 54cm frame....as Surly sizes it. If the 52cm frame has a TT of just a hair over 21 inches, that will be too short for me. Early on in the thread, I explained I had a Univega with that same TT length. I could not get comfy on it. Gone!!....lol!

If you ride a road bike that measures a 56cm top tube/56cm seat tube then you should get a 54cm Cross Check if you want it to feel like your road bike and for racing cyclecross you might consider a 52cm size in the Cross Check.

Nope. Won't be racing. Strictly a recreational rider, here.

I know people are fixated on seat tube length but it is the top tube that really determines fit. If I measure the seat tube on my 54cm Cross Checks, center to top, it measures 57cm. Like i said earlier the Cross Check has a higher bottom bracket and a low top tube considering he length of the top tube. In other words, the frame is squished a little. This was done on purpose I assume to produce a bike with a relatively aggressive stance.

I understand. You explained that earlier, too. My assumption is not too far remove from yours, though. In order for Surly to make a frame that would accommodate up to 700c x 45mm tires on every frame and, yet, still produce frames for folks of varying sizes, I figured the compromise had to be made up for in frame/triangle geometry and, consequently, the head tube length. I've got a Trek 520 (the last year they were lugged....bummer) that has enough room for atleast 40mm tires and is too tall for me in standover height though the actual TT length and seat tube length are fine for a nearly perfect fit. Thing is, it still has a lower BB than the CrossCheck so the frame/triangle is not so squished. If the damn TT was about inch lower on this thing, I'd already be set. Now I gotta sell it....pfth!

If you want an upright bike (that actually fits) that you can sit bolt upright on then the Cross Check is not your bike.

Oh, man....I'm not going the bolt upright route, though. Maybe this is misunderstood. I'd said earlier I'd wanted to run some dirtdrop type handlebars....probably Garys or Woodchippers. I'd read that it was advisable to adjust so the drops were positioned in the same relative way one would have a riser or flat bar so that the majority of off road riding is in the drops. Also, it was mentioned that the tops would therefore probably be a tad higher than the saddle. I'm figuring they mean like maybe a cm or two. Not sure. So, this is where I've been coming from, eh. I won't actually know how the hell they'll be adjusted until I get the frame and some handlebars on there, though....haha! I suppose a lot of what I've said has merely been conjecture trying to make the best educated guess I can on a frame size without actually having one available to fit. That changed, however, when I was recently able to hook up with an acquaintance that has one. A 56cm, in fact. And, yeah, it was a bit too big. So, I ordered the 54cm.

I can hardly wait to get my hands on the CC frame set and get it built up to ride. I broke a couple of spokes on the intended wheelset, though. Dang. It's time for stainless, me thinks.

[rithem]

I've posted this before ... trust new englanders Especially the author here

[Loose Chain]

Hope you like your new bike. The steering tube is very long until the shop cuts it. I made sure I told them NOT to cut mine, that I would take care of it. I left min e long so that I can rasie the bars or drop them. I just flip the spacers up on top to lower etc.

I am nearly 5-11 and have long legs and arms, a swimmer, tri sort of guy. I like an aggressive bike thus my preference for a bike to the smaller end of my fit range. I think you will be OK, sure hope so. I don't cross my bike, well, a few times. I mostly use it as a workout machine for gravel and mixed roads and as my "fast" commuter.

Good luck. Enjoy.

LC

[thook]

@rithem.....Thanks for the article. Though I won't be competing in any 'cross racing, I'll keep the article suggestions in mind.

@ LC.......I really think it'll be fine. If not, it's not the end of the world and I'll work out something else. Then, you guys can say you were right....lol!

[thook]

Well, I got the frameset finally paid off and brought it home. Now I'm in the process of building it up.....so you guys know, if you're curious. And, now I can see what you all were trying to tell me......particularly about reach relative to the short head tube on the C/C.

The TT on the C/C is lower than on my Trek 614. So, though the TT is the same length on both frames, the effective reach is different.....longer on the C/C....because my saddle height is, nevertheless, still the same. Since the headtube is lower down (ie, shorter....on the C/C) relative to saddle height, the reach/distance becomes greater due to the angle factors. So, overall the fit is bigger, but I'm working on dialing in the fit.....which I do believe will happen. I just need a new stem for it and figure out spacer stacking and all that. I'm looking to build something akin to this beautiful monster:



We'll see how it works out, eh? Thanks, again, everyone.

[ThermionicScott]

Cool! What size did you end up getting? I'm 5'8" and liked my friend's 56cm CC, but I didn't do any really long rides on it.