mev

There is an annual supported ride across Africa sponsored by Tour D'Afrique. The FAQ list for this site mentions cyclocross bikes as one choice of bike to ride: https://www.tourdafrique.com/tours/tourdafrique/faq

My question is on suggestions for good cyclocross bikes to consider with following parameters:
-- Good for a ride like TDA which is 7500 miles across Africa with large portions on gravel. Note that the TDA FAQ preaches "simplicity and durability" and suggests a preference for steel frame, or if not that aluminum.
-- Good for a tall and larger rider, e.g. ~250lbs.
-- Willing to switch components or things like wheels, tires, etc as appropriate.
What are good CX bikes to consider with these parameters?

I've done a lot of loaded touring and my other bikes I normally ride have been Trek 520 touring bike and a Trek 4500 mountain bike. The Trek 520 is set up with 48-spoke 700c rear wheel for extra durability. That bike was used for previous ride with TDA for ~4000km through China (https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/mevchina2007).

My question is hence coming from premise of considering a bike that can be at least as rugged as the Trek 520 touring bike used in China but faster on the road than a Trek 4500 type mountain bike. As necessary I will switch some components like wheels(similar to what I did with Trek 520 rear wheel).

cpach

For a ride like this you probably do NOT want cyclocross race gearing (a compact crank with 36/48ish chainrings). A road compact (50/34) with a wide range cassette (possibly with a mountain RD) could work well, or you could run a road or mountain triple. Long offroad climbs on cross gearing (or even compact road gearing) are brutal.

A Surly Cross check might be a good frame for you to build up, although the default build kit probably isn't what you'd want to look at (at least the chainrings, but also general quality of components). Maybe a Specialized Tricross with a triple? You might want to consider a beefier wheelset than it comes with but other than that it would probably be a good choice.

You could probably do this ride fine on your 520 with cross tires, although it'd be somewhat heavier than a cross bike.

Sounds like an awesome ride. I'm jealous.

Barrettscv 

Since this is a fully supported tour, with camping gear and extra clothing transported by motor vehicle, a CX bike makes good sense. I would consider a steel bike that includes a 15 speed triple drivetrain for maximum comfort. You might need multiple tires as conditions change.

The Soma Double Cross would work well. The bike can accept either disc or cantilever brakes. It rides well with skinny road tires and will also accept 700x38 touring tires and fenders. I’ve set mine up as a road bike, it weighs less than 24 pounds in a size 60cm. Mine has 15,000 miles of all-weather, trouble free riding on it. My weight was 235 pounds when I aquired the bike, I'm 6'0" and 200 pounds today.

GrayJay

Cyclocross frames are typically designed for fast cornering and repeated acceleration jumps, including a relativly steep seat tube angle, short chainstays a high bottom bracket and made from light-weight tubing. I would not expect a CX frame to be a comfortable fit for long days on the road. I think you would be better served with a more traditional touring frame with a more lower, stable and relaxed seat position, longer chainstays, and a more rugged (heavier) frame so long as it can still accomidate sufficiently wide tires (at least 35mm) to deal with rougher gravel/dirt when needed. Tires give a bike the offroad / rough road capability, not the frame geometry. No reason to have a twichy nimble lightweight for 7500mi of largely road riding.
The previously mentioned soma (not a pure CX bike) is proabably a step in the right direction but I would still be concerned about reliability of such a light frame (tange prestige) for an expedition. Saving 1/2 lbd of weight will be least of your concerns if this frame cracks in half somewhere out in lion territory.

mev

Thanks for good inputs to consider on wheels, gearing and the like. Definitely agree that I'm not trying to save 1/2 lb of weight, but instead looking for a combination that is going to work well for some long days in the saddle, while also being rugged for days with rough terrain. Will check out Soma cross check, Soma double cross and get a further sense of starting with such frames or coming more from Trek 520 perspective.

eddubal

GrayJay has a good point about a CX bike's geometry. You might want to look into one with a bit more relaxed and stable geometry. Surly's Long Haul Trucker or it's Disc Trucker might be more what you are looking for. It has shallower seat & head tubes, as well as a lower BB and longer wheelbase than most CX bikes. It comes stock with 37mm tires, so it can handle tires right in the range of an average CX tire.

Looking at the specs, it is reminiscent of an old-school MTB with it's relaxed angles and lower gearing. It's steel, and made for touring. It's definitely worth a look. The cross check is similar but with a shorter wheelbase is less stable. Good luck with your decision.

contango 

People have mentioned the Tricross. I've never done a long tour on mine but can tell you a little about how I've found it on surfaces less forgiving than freshly laid tarmac.

I'm about 6'4 and 240 pounds, and ride a 58cm tricross. I've got the kind of body shape that means I'd be better on the 61cm for the reach but the 58cm means I don't become an instant soprano if I have to jump off the saddle in a hurry.

Mine comes with a triple chainring (50/39/30) and a 9-speed 11-32 cassette. I think that's still pretty standard for the midrange tricross, although the top-end one comes with (I think) 11-28 or maybe 12-28. For touring over varied surfaces you'll want a combination of higher gears to chew up tarmac and lower gears to deal with climbs on gravel and the like.

I haven't taken mine over what I'd call brutal terrain. I've taken it through gravel, mud, rutted gravel etc. The worst thing I've done on it (from a peace of mind perspective) was a downhill section that my GPS rated about 15% at the steepest on rutted gravel covered with mud and wet leaves. That was tricky to deal with because I couldn't see where the lumpy bits were under the mud but if I hit them awkwardly one of my wheels would slide sideways with little to no warning. I was glad to get to the bottom of that section! That ride was about 80-odd miles for the day, and included a good distance on the road, several miles of compacted gravel of varying levels of smoothness, the nasty descent I mentioned, a few short but steep climbs etc. At the end of the day I was still finding the bike comfortable. I wouldn't feel apprehensive about taking it on longer rides.

I'd recommend swapping out the standard tyres it comes with. I like the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres which are all but bulletproof where punctures are concerned but will make the ride harsher. You could also look at the Marathon Extreme which comes in a 700x35 and is lighter than the Plus. It loses the half-inch of plastic that protects the Plus from punctures (hence it's lighter) and seems to be resilient. I use one on the back of my MTB and never punctured it. If you want a slightly more aggressive tread pattern and the extreme puncture protection have a look at the Marathon Plus Tour. I think that only comes in a 700x40.

If you're expecting a lot of nasty terrain you could look at just putting more road-friendly tyres on your MTB. I know it's not in the same league as your 7500-mile tour but I've done reasonable distances on a hardtail MTB - I've got a Marathon Plus on the front and a Marathon Extreme on the back, and the suspension is well worth having when the trail gets bumpy. A few months back I did ~150 miles over two days with a group of friends, then took a day off and then did 110 miles back in a day.

One thing to be aware of, the Plus tyres are much harder to put on and take off than regular tyres. The first time I ever took a tyre off a wheel it was a 26x2" Plus MTB tyre and it took me an age - I replaced it with a 26x2" Extreme tyre which took me a little while to put on. The next time I removed a tyre it was the stock Borough tyre on the tricross (due to a puncture) and I got it on and off with no tools at all. Then when I replaced the stock Boroughs with 700x32 Marathon Plus tyres it took me an age to get them on the wheels and I needed levers to get the last 12-18" of tyre onto the rim.

Barrettscv 

GrayJay is making two generalizations that are not always accurate.

Many bikes marketed as a "Cyclocross" bikes are not primarily designed for Cyclocross racing. Many models that use "Cyclocross" in thier marketing materials are designed as sports/touring models. These models, including the Surly Cross Check, Soma Double Cross and Gunner Cross Hairs can be used by amateur sportsman for Cyclocross racing, but have geometry and handling characteristics that are more like touring models than race models. The main difference in geometry between the touring models sold by Surly, Soma and Gunnar and the Cyclocross models sold by these marketers is the length of the chainstay. Cyclocross bikes often have 425mm chainstays while touring models have 440mm or longer chainstays.

Next, GrayJay assumes that a lighter frame is not a strong frame. Heat treated steel can be much stronger than mild steel, allowing a light frame that is stronger than a heavier frame made from inferior materials. As mentioned, the models recommended are not feather weight racing models and Soma and Gunner use heat treated steel to produce a strong frame suitable for long distance cycling both on-pavement and gravel.

The hierarchy of frame materials is as follows;

1. Heat-treated air hardened steel
(Reynolds 853, Columbus Foco, TrueTemper OXPlatinum)*
2. Heat-treated CrMo(Tange Prestige HT, TrueTemper Verus HT Reynolds 725)
3. Cold-drawn air hardened steel
(Reynolds 631)*
4. Cold-drawn 4130 CrMo(Reynolds 525, TrueTemper Verus, Tange Prestige/Infinity)
5. High tensile steel(cheap dept. store bikes, cheaper bike shop bikes)

* Air-hardened steels actually gain strength in the weld area after welding, but not along the whole tube.

Don't assume that a heavier bike is perfectly durable and that a lighter bike is fragile. I agree that building an ultralight racing bike has little benefit, but excess weight does not always provide higher strength.

Another model to consider: https://salsacycles.com/bikes/casseroll/

MagicJade

You can also look into the UK based manufacturer Genesis https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/ and their cyclosross model Croix de Fer. It is a Reynolds 853 frame & fork designed for disk brakes and a set of braze ons for racks and fenders. The stock bike is based on Tiagra 10-speed components but you can have the frame set only. The bike was used by Vin Cox on the round the world trip when he set up the new Guiness record for that. There is also a model designed for IGH (even the stock model called Day One).
According to Genesis blog, Croix de Fer was also used during last Paris-Brest-Paris race and on the tour around Iceland, so either long distance or bad road (no road) conditions.

fietsbob

250# guy on a long cross continent trip, and fully supported says 'bring several bikes'..
stuff breaks and you need spare parts not exactly common to the Heart of Africa.

steel frame , and fork , brand is secondary.. every big bike brand
has a desire for a market slice in this game.

just get the fit right so you can stand to ride it all day for a couple months..

njkayaker

People have been doing this ride for some years. What are they using/preferring?

When I looked into this a year or so ago, it seemed people tended to use MTB with front shocks.

SurlyLaika

why not Salsa's Vaya, their lighter adventure road bike?

*steel
*disc brakes
*fender and rack mounts
*touring specific design is half way between a Cross Check and a LHT

If you need something beefier, you could look at Salsa's Fargo. Just to throw another one in, how about Surly's Ogre?

zzzwillzzz

have any of you seen a show on this ride? i recently saw a 1/2 hour show on universal sports about it, most of the riders were on mtb bikes and there were sections even mtb bikers had to walk due to deep sand. from what i saw a salsa cassaroll is the wrong way to go, some days you're gonna need big tires, if it were me, from what i've seen on the show i'd probably guess on the salsa fargo ti and lots of tires and/or wheelsets

Henry III

I'd go watch the "Ride the Divide" movie and see what their riding. That race is considered the longest and challenging mtb race in the world. Not a single person was on a drop bar bike from what I've seen. A lot of them had full suspension or hardtail mountain bikes and quite a few had aero bars mounted on them also. Matthew Lee who's won the race 4 or 5 times did it on a Cannondale Flash 29'er. I think if you wanted to be drop bar I'd go with more of like a monstercross type setup and do some mountain drop on it instead. Mind you he carries everything he needed on his bike and it didn't have any panniers or racks besides a seatpost mounted rack with a smaller bag mounted on top. I think with that many wins and records he knows a thing or two of what works and what doesn't. Just my opinion.

STP

I thought of this bike, too, because of it's increase tire width clearance. Two reasons: you could find almost any tire in the 650B range anywhere in the world and wouldn't worry about it, and two, it has a strong, steel frame that could be "repaired" in towns and villages. However, I'd be wary of disc brakes because they could be damaged and not easily repairable or replaceable. Plus, if you damaged a cantilever brake, unhooking it would still leave you mobile whereas a disc brake could leave you immobile. Brake pads and sand are a bad combination so the discs would be at a replacement disadvantage again.

If you want to do good research, go to www.crazyguyonabike.com and read the african ride reports. There are some great reports in there and you can see what they rode and what they needed to fix in the field. Good luck

Henry III

Then again you could look at it another way. If your rims gets out of true you don't worry about issues seen with rim style brakes. I actually have a Salsa Vaya and yes it's a stout versatile ride but nothing something I'd want to take over rough terrain. I'd be looking at something like a Salsa Fargo but would still rather have something with suspension on front with lockout. I guess it just what matters what they mean by "rougher off road sections".

fietsbob

Tout Terrain Pan America was made for doing that sort of trip Unsupported .

Full suspension, frame is built around a rear rack, which has the shock tower in it.

+ 1 for 26" wheels..

Barrettscv 

Bryce Walsh just finished the Tour d'Afrique on a Litespeed Cross Bike. He took 3rd place.


https://www.brycewalsh.com/tour-dafrique

mev

I enjoyed following along this year TDA including watching Bryce's twitter posts and other overall postings. A cross bike is one of the styles used and seems like it can work for some. Bryce also has a somewhat lighter build than I do .

In the end, I decided to have a Trek 4500 mountain bike built up, but had the wheels replaced with 40 spoke rear/36 spoke front with velocity cliffhanger rims. I added bar extenders and grips to the handle bars, changed saddle and have lockout of the front suspension. I've ridden it ~500 miles so far including Seattle to Portland this past weekend and seems to ride reasonably comfortably for longer distances. It isn't quite as fast as my road bikes, but am training in advance to make myself faster.

I'm sure cross bikes work well, though you guys gave me enough cautions , that given weight I went with a little more basic even if somewhat slower ride.

Barrettscv 

I'll never ride the TDA, but if I did, a bike like this would work for me;

https://www.strongframes.com/frames_&...ng/cyclocross/

I would install 36 hole Velocity Dyad rims, a 48, 36 & 22 Deore triple and brifters. I might use a variety of tires, including the Schwalbe Dureme, Vittoria Randonneur Pro and Clement X’Plor MSO.

Fat Boy

This.

It's steel (easily repairable). 26" tires (easily replaceable, 700c's can be harder to find in BFE). It has geometry more suited to touring and less suited to sand pits and run-ups. Don't go disc, you want easy to replace brakes. Go with a high spoke count wheel on a strong, wide rim and tough tires (Specialized Infinity Armadillos, maybe?).

For drivetrain, I'd go with Shimano 105. Again, tough and easy to replace. A good argument could be made for bar-end friction shifters. Plan on a chain every 2500 miles.

Have fun. It sounds like a great trip.

meanwhile

If the tour includes a mechanic with welding gear, yes. The idea that a village metal worker can repair a Western steel bike frame is a bit of a myth - the very thin tubing, often with exotic metallurgy, is nothing like the heavy stuff they're used to and equipped for working on. Or so I've been told by people who have done this sort of thing.

This is a supported tour, yes?

martianone

so, MEV, after riding the Trek 4500 conversion - how does it compare to the Trek 520 ?

Fat Boy

Long Haul Truckers are made of tubing that is neither thin nor exotic. Anyone with a stick arc welder could fix it this frame, and if I needed to, I could weld it together with a car battery, jumper cables and a coat-hanger. While an arc welder might not be a popular appliance in a mud hut, I bet that pretty much every farm along the way would have access to a welder of some sort.

jolly_ross

I'm intent on using a 29er mountain bike - hardtail, short travel suspension fork with lockout, thudbuster seatpost. Multiple sets of tyres but primarily slick-ish with armoured casing (Marathon or Armadillo). Steel or Alu frame depends on what crops up within budget looking most suitable. Fingers crossed.

See you in Cairo.