Its easy to be confused with the T numbers, different tests produce different numbers. Different clinics test and lab differently and get completely different results. Even with the same test subject. And to further compound the confusion, FREE Testosterone vs TOTAL Testosterone also tests and labs different. So its also quite important to ask the doctor to test for both. I know I will next time I see my doc in May.
Yeah, Sun Yaoting only lived to 94.Originally Posted by VNA
Last edited by tcs; 03-26-12 at 06:28 AM.
"When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.
"Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008
Shop around for a doctor who gets vacations to Cabo San Lucas from the pharmaceutical companies.
My daughter does medical translation and she told me recently one of the PAs wrote a prescription for supplemental testosterone on the basis of a 'diagnosis' by the fellow's trainer at the gym.
"When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.
"Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008
I'm now coming up on the three-month anniversary of taking testosterone supplements. Have switched from Testim to Androgel and had my dosage upped after a second blood test.
So far, I've got nothing bad to say. I'm seeing a lot of benefits and expect it to get even better as I move from three to six months. Yes, I'm riding my bike faster (about 1/2 to 1 mph overall average) but it isn't a quantum leap, and it is hard to say how much of the gain is biochemical. My time on the trainer during the winter must also get some of the credit, but perhaps there is an interaction of training x chemistry.
Have not done any long rides over 35 miles yet, so effect on endurance/recovery is unknown. Recovery from intense short efforts is definitely better.
Oh Yeah, I did lose a shootout on the MUP the other day, so the effects of the T must not be all that great:
(My legs WERE pretty tired though... and I HAD climbed some Alps beforehand... was not on my fast bike either...)
Last edited by billydonn; 04-12-12 at 11:53 AM.
I just passed 9 months on Hormone therapy; Thyroid, Steroid & Testosterone, I notice a big difference over where I was after 6 and 7 months of therapy. What a difference in my energy levels and my riding. My hormone levels declined to virtually nothing over more than ten years during which time my riding declined precipitously. In recent weeks I started riding hills I had not ridden over in years and the last couple of weeks have each seen mileages greater than a couple of months worth a year ago. I know I can do even more but I am taking it slowly so as not to get hurt while over doing it.
Today must be the day for updates. I'll go ahead and give mine, even though it's only been about 2-3 weeks since I started using Androgel.
About the only noticeable difference is that I'm not sore the day of or the day after an intense ride. It's nice for the legs to not be "weary". But ... I still suck at climbing! Been doing more of that, since I signed up for the Strava climbing challenge with the goal of finishing in the top half. It's still difficult to pull a 1 or 2 mile, 6-7% average grade at more than about 6 mph. Not sure if it is due to lousy sleep habits, (5-6 hours per night), being overweight, (by about 20 pounds), or poor conditioning. Probably a combination of all three. Or, I just suck as a climber.
Deut 6:5
---
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
- Vizzini during his "battle of wits" with the Man in Black
Volo:
It's probably going to take awhile to become a monster on your bike. (I'm sure you know that of course.) Improved testosterone levels may well allow you to train just a bit harder. I have noticed other benefits like more energy generally at work, etc. and I suspect you may too. More and more I can feel, and see, changes in my body composition that I really like. Good luck and post your observations from time to time.
For those of you taking Androgel, I have a question about where you apply the gel. Just received my first Rx refill yesterday. This prescription came in a baggie with a "medication guide" sheet enclosed. The first tube I got several weeks ago did not come with this sheet. On that first tube, after some experimentation, I found the easiest place to apply the gel was on my thigh. I noticed that the gel would quickly liquify and drip onto the sheets or whatever if I wasn't quick about rubbing it in. However, the "medication guide" shows to apply the gel on one's stomach, shoulders, or upper arms.
Should I follow this guide and apply the gel where they say to, (stsomach, shoulders, or upper arms)... or is applying it to my thigh okay?
- - -
p.s. Have a century ride on Sunday, (Tour de Cure), so will see how this stuff really works and how I feel on Monday. Last Friday, I took a 55 mile ride, and bonked at mile 42 because I didn't eat and also got sunburned in several places. Was wasted the rest of that day and most of Saturday. Didn't realize that the sun was so intense or how hot it really got. With the wind, it didn't seem that hot, but back at the car, the thermometer read in the high 90's.
Last edited by volosong; 04-26-12 at 02:14 PM.
Deut 6:5
---
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
- Vizzini during his "battle of wits" with the Man in Black
Can't advise you on application sites as I don't use any T replacement/supplement, but the ads on TV warn to choose a site so that women and children do not come in contact with the application site. Obviously, there are posters here far more qualified to advise you.
I have used the thigh occasionally but I stick mostly to the prescribed areas you mentioned. I assume there is more possibility of rib-off onto clothing on the thigh so be sure to at least let the alcohol evaporate well before putting your pants on.
Only did the metric century yesterday. The hills were front loaded with 3200 feet of climbing in that first 60 miles. After that, it was dead flat through the urban jungle. After a mile or so, I got tired of having to stop for a red light every couple of blocks or after every five minutes. Couldn't get any rhythm going. That was awful, so I turned around and finished up. My average speed was pretty good considering all the hills we had to climb, so I knew I didn't really take it easy. My Strava Suffer Score of 202 with 75 points in the red also shows me that I wasn't goofing off too much.
Today? I feel great! Slept well last night, and no "aches and pains" today. I'm ready to go again on another moderate-length ride. This stuff just might be working.
p.s. I'm sticking with the thigh for now. Seems to be the easiest and most convenient place for me.
Deut 6:5
---
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
- Vizzini during his "battle of wits" with the Man in Black
I would look that doctor right in the eye and tell him or her they are FIRED!!
Its your life and you are responsible for it, not your doctor. I have fired three doctors in my life time so far. I got the idea from my father who became unhappy with his doctor who was treating him for a knee issue. I was with him at the time as he needed help walking. I was never so proud of him when he uttered those words. Some doctors act like they are gods and don't want to be questioned. When I interviewed my current doctor I had many questions about how my treatment would be handled, and was happy with his answers so I said clearly, OK doc, your hired. He looked at me a little quizzical, smiled and said thanks. Good luck.
Chief Executive In Charge Of Diddly Squat.
Taking on a long hill is like fighting a Gorilla. You don't stop when you are tired, You stop when the Gorilla is tired.
Now ridding a
Felt AR4 with Mavic Super light Premium wheels
Cannonade Hybrid
If you lack the courage to start, you have already finished.
In God we trust
Since everyone seems to be updating I guess its my turn.
I am nearly back to where I was almost 4 years ago when my thyroid abandoned me. The only thing I haven't gotten back is my Heart Rate. My max sustainable HR was 166 and now it closer to 144 barely on a good day. I am doing 70 to 85 miles rides twice a week where I used to do them three times a week and quicker.
There is a bid difference in my attitude and in general I just feel better about life and people don't seem to piss me off as much or as easy. I will have another blood test in two weeks and will have my psa's tested too.
By the way I found out how the "normal" numbers are derived. The people to test the blood take an average of all the tests for a certain test and determine the high and low for these #s. So, doctors send people with a suspected ailment and from those results comes the parameters. It is not taken from the healthy average person. So if you are on the low side of the scale, it means of its from all the sickly peoples tests. I want to be on the high end myself.
Chief Executive In Charge Of Diddly Squat.
Taking on a long hill is like fighting a Gorilla. You don't stop when you are tired, You stop when the Gorilla is tired.
Now ridding a
Felt AR4 with Mavic Super light Premium wheels
Cannonade Hybrid
If you lack the courage to start, you have already finished.
In God we trust
Already happened here. I am on Testim due to my remaining testicle shutting down (left one ripped from my body due to cancer). Weekly self checks are in order. I the boys start feeling a bit soft, let your doctor know.
Later,
Lee
Currently riding a 2006 Trek 1000 with 'Discovery Channel' team colors and graphics.
_____________________________________________________________________
http://pedalmybike.com/userTrackies/myTrackie4548.jpg
The literature in the medication states to place it on the shoulders/chest. As I use two tubes, both sides get a tube. It takes about five minutes to dry, but still sticks to my shirts sometimes.
Later,
Lee
Currently riding a 2006 Trek 1000 with 'Discovery Channel' team colors and graphics.
_____________________________________________________________________
http://pedalmybike.com/userTrackies/myTrackie4548.jpg
Literature with Androgel identifies the abdomen as an application site FYI
I agree 100% The gall of the man - after 20 years of caring for you as a patient, he won't give you a hormone clinical tests say you don't need! What is he thinking? Hormones are as safe as cotton candy - Joe Weider and Arnold Schwarzenegger proved that years ago.
Who the heck does he think he is? Why does he get to decide that your health is more important than your ego? I got news for him - all those years of studying endocrinology don't mean squat. We got forums full of medical experts who are able to prescribe without even having to read tests results or doing any physical exams.
Sorry but a doctor is not an order taker for very obvious reasons.
All drugs have side effects including hormone replacements.
For hormonal problems one should see an endocrinologist not one's family doctor.
Assuming you were engaging in a bit of sarcasm:
I don't want to get in to the doctor shopping discussion but I would point out the the bodybuilders of the 70s were elevating their testosterone levels FAR beyond the normal range. It's getting to the normal range that is my goal, not getting to 300 percent of normal. So far, so good.
Last edited by billydonn; 05-02-12 at 10:35 PM.
What happens if you miss a dose? I was running late this morning and didn't use mine
My guess is like a lot of meds. Missing a dose every once in awhile does not usually have disastrous effects. Just don't miss too often. It's not like it is blood pressure medicine or transplant organ anti-rejection medicine where missing a dose could have devastating results.
(disclaimer: I am not a physician, so I do not speak with educated authority here. Just out of my personal experience. Consult your prescribing physician with any concerns you may have.)
Deut 6:5
---
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
- Vizzini during his "battle of wits" with the Man in Black
There may a short-term reduction in your frequency of having naughty thoughts. Aside from that, my best guess is that nothing much happens. I would not worry about it.
It's not about ego. I could give a crap about time, distance, power, or keeping up with the Joneses. It's about getting my life back. This stuff is not pure science and not just about the numbers, and any doctor current in his practice should understand this. It's an easy statement to say that "your number falls within the norm, That'll be $240, please." Tougher to say "let's dig deeper for answers" when there are none easily found. Hopefully you'll never have to walk a mile in my shoes in order to find that out.
Wow... some of you poor sods (not you, volosong) really need to get informed. Ok... I've got a lot to add to this thread. Been on the juice at least three years. Suspected I was low in my 20's/30's but didn't actually test levels till I was 45. Tested at 250 on a scale that went from 250 to 1050. Doctor said I was fine. Not much I could have done about it anyway, not much money, no health insurance. Long story short at 50 y.o. found a ND (naturpath) that prescribed shots, did shots for about a year, then found another naturpath that said "you're crazy to do that. It has been cream ever since. Androgel and Testim are powerful and will raise your T levels but are big pharma products. Expensive and made with artificial hormones that can be patented. Bio-identical creams are less powerful but are natural and work very well when you give them time, and time is something you have plenty of when you are dosing daily for weeks, months, and years. You don't need the power and potency of the commercial stuff.
Important! After a year and a half on the juice I just wasn't feeling right. Doctor tested estrogen. I was 12 on a scale that went from 0.2 to 4. That was not a typo. Very few doctors administering 'T' ever test estrogen before or during testosterone therapy. This is a bad idea because when a man has been low 't' for years or decades his body reacts to the new higher levels of testosterone by turning it into estrogen. It is the estrogen in a mans body that causes prostate cancer and other problems. Proper estrogen levels for a man should be about 1. Not many men on 'T' are taking Arimidex or Clomid but many, many more should be. At the very least, if you are taking 'T' get your estrogen levels checked. I take 1/4 of an Arimidex tablet every other day or so. Pharmacist says that men can take up to 1 tablet/wk. I am just slightly over that and trying to bring it down. Some men may not need an anti-aromatising agent (Arimidex, Clomid) but I'll bet money that at least one more of you guys that are supplementing 'T' is in the process of elevating your estrogen into unhealthy amounts. If you still feel crappy even though you have the 'T' level of a young Clydesdale go and have your estrogen checked. Check it anyway regardless of how you feel.
Every direction for topical hormone replacements say to rotate the sites. Inside elbow, inside fore-arm, inside thigh and backs of knees are all good sites where the skin is thinner than normal. Neck is also good and so is the area where the raisins hang. It would appear I've been on the stuff longer than anyone who has posted and I am on a fairly generous dose. There has been zero shrinkage. I repeat, zero shrinkage. Neither has there been any enlargement... ... and if you get from that that I wasn't talking about raisins that time, you would be correct.
At the risk of sounding like an info-mercial I will say that the 'T' has saved my life. Being chronically low in 'T' is NOT a natural situation and allowing it to continue is just as bad, or worse, than taking excessive amounts of male hormone to acquire unnatural amounts of muscle and strength.
H
PS Your old lady will not turn into Sasquatch if she brushes against your thigh that you have liberally basted with an over application of sauce! Not even the gels are that potent but the creams are way less potent than the gels if you are nervous. Wash your hands after applying. Better yet apply some of your stash to your favorite spot to apply stuff on her and watch the fur fly. And no, I don't mean facial hair. Really, it's not harmful, you can't sue me if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong. Bottom line, if you are in this forum, you likely could use a lot more 'T' and your spouse could certainly use a little. The 'accidental' contact is a win-win.
I'll share too....I will be 49 this month. Last fall, I was turned down for a life insurance upgrade. Seems that my cholesterol of 311 and triglycerides of over 400 were some cause for alarmFebruary 1st, I had a physical with my physician and started a medically supervised program of diet and exercise. Last check three weeks ago, my cholesterol was 172 and my triglycerides were 95
I have lost 30 lbs and am down from a 38" waist to a 34". I am about 10 lbs from where I got married 25 years ago. I feel great. About 4 weeks ago, he tested for my T levels. I was 'low-normal', around 250-300, I think. He suggested some IM injections every 10 days followed by some 'pellet implants' that will absorb over 6-9 months. This stuff rocks!!! My weight has stabilized, but my lean mass is increasing and my body fat% is decreasing. I have more energy, focus, and a significant performance improvement (just ask my wife
) He checked my PSA and that is very low. He will continue to check that and monitor my levels.
Also, my wife is going to start the therapy as well. It seems that many women suffer from low levels as well.
I am a believer and thrilled.
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