Robert C

It appears that the biggest value if the E+ kit is that it is visually balanced by having placed the batteries in a shell that looks like a front bub motor. There is definitely nothing wrong with this. However, it makes for a rather unimpressive kit when the price is also taken into account; unless, the visual balance is important. In that case it is a great kit.

However, this is taking us away from the point that the OP (sorry to be speaking of you in the third person) wants a turn-key, medium cost, high-performance solution.

powell

I paid $3500 for my E+ plus 1000W kit, that's medium cost I would say if you consider high end ebikes like Optibike which starts at$6500 to $12000.
E+ is worth every dollar I paid-
-no loose connectors, whining motor, hesitating, stuttering motor, loose spokes, etc.

crackerdog

Thanks for the link, Powell.

biker

Need a really low gear.

A kit like this is the new stuff. Allows you to change gears.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-450W-ELE...item2ebcea84be

Check out the video !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=j28r3yo7Oqg#!

biker

I agree. I don't need a motor on level ground and sure don't need one to go down hill.

I gave up on hub motors. They are stuck in one gear !
You can read every thread on ES, put a brushless motor with a Magic controller and Cycle Analyst on it and study the hub motor and ebike simulator all day and it will still be stuck in one gear.

I have an electric fixie trike but my bikes are about the gears !

Shouldbeworking

Ok, some big updates to make here.

The very helpful SF ebike store young lady BROUGHT me, to my house, several other bikes to try. Very good service. We rode together up the hill a few times, switching off bikes.

SO it turns out that the Ohm battery that I had been using on the bike they sold me seems to have a problem. It cut down power at certain points while she was using it. When that happened to me, it was the first time of me trying ebike on my hill, so I thought it meant the motor wasn't strong enough. She had ridden the other Ohm up the hill with a different battery the first time, and did not have that problem, so it really was an anomalous flaw in the system they sold me.

But she also brought me a Focus Jarifa Speed to try, with a Bosch middrive 350W 36V motor. This thing was really great. It was very energetic and nicer than the Ohm's hub motor. And I was, with some effort, able to make it up my hill! The style is a little sportier than I prefer but I guess I could get the handlebars switched to a more upright style.

https://www.focus-bikes.com/us/en_us/...a-speed-6.html

Now I'm wondering whether my grade-measuring all along was off, otherwise how did I make these grades I've been complaining about with just 350W? Or is it that you all in advising me were assuming that I wouldn't pedal, which in fact I want to do for exercise?

My hill on this bike is still a workout, a tad more than I might want, but then again I rode up that hill TWICE in one hour and feel pretty good. No hip irritation at all, which the Ohm did irritate it slightly. The other question is whether it would be worth it, with this research, to go back to the idea of having one built for me with a similar or slightly higher-power setup. This bike is not cheap, but it is ready to go and works for me. I'm not a techie--picking out a bike to begin with, picking out all the options (likely NOT middrive but BMC geared hub), getting Ilia or someone to build it for me, if they are willing, this is all a little daunting.

Also the Focus is so LIGHT, like 20 lbs lighter than the Ohm, I guess because it's middrive and the bike is just lighter. I think this is why my hip (which is cranky and has steel) feels GREAT now, whereas after the Ohm it was a little irritated.

I know you are the DIY people here, but insights are welcome!

Shouldbeworking

Actually studying the bike and the website, I realize this is a 2011 Focus with a Panasonic 300W.

Robert C

The smaller motor is able to give better performance because it is a mid drive. The mid drive design has the advantage of being able to use the bikes gears. In hill climbing , this is a significant advantage.

As far as the weight, while both bikes appear to have 8 Amp batteries (Bosch 8, Ohm 8.8), the Focus has a 36V battery and the Ohm has a 48V battery. Significant weight savings are to be found right there. Further, and I admit that this is just based on looking at the pictures, it looks like the Focus is based on a normal bicycle frame; while the Ohm looks like it has a heavier, e-bike specific- frame.

The problem you are facing is an interesting one. Further, I have been interested in watching the evolution of e-bikes from hobbyists projects into viable consumer products.

Shouldbeworking

Ok, here a more detailed review of the Focus Jarifa Speed now that I have 10 min free:

It is zippy, almost like that little folding electric BH Volt I tried, again because the weight is good I guess. It has three levels of assist (Ohm had 4) in addition to non-assist mode. Ohm's levels 1 and 2 were not so impressive, but the Jarifa's lowest assist level (called 'eco') gave me an excellent push. And high assist was great. There is no throttle like Ohm had, so pedaling is always required. I'm fine with this, the highest level of assist felt stronger than the Ohm's WOT.

It has, as I said, lower handlebars but weirdly the posture didn't bother me at all, even less than the Ohm's slightly more upright posture had, the latter had made my shoulders sore.

The battery can only be charged off-bike, which I don't see as a problem. The brakes are hydraulic disk. I did like the regen better on the Ohm, because it slows me down so well on descent.

I like it that the motor is more discreetly behind the seat post. The Ohm's huge battery in the step-through was a bit conspicuous for my taste. There was a little humming while I rode but I think that was just the sound of me pedaling, not the motor? Definitely acceptable.

Here are the slight annoyances:
The handlebar grips aren't as good as the Ohm's. After the 3-mi ride down the hill the heel of my hand (is that what it is called?) was a little sore. Perhaps the thing I most wish were redesigned is the gear-changing mechanism. You press once with your right thumb to increase gears, and twice to decrease, but really the "twice" is more just like a bigger, harder press. I like those twisty gear changers instead. There is a stepover instead of step-through, but it is not as awkward for me as the Ohm was.

Shouldbeworking

I may have posted the wrong link earlier, it's this one:
https://www.focus-bikes.com/us/en_us/...a-speed-6.html

profstack

The Ohm Urban has weight less than 50#. How much lighter is the Focus? It can't be 20#, I'm sure. The Focus is similar (but with 26" tires) to the Kalkhoff Connect Pro Sport 300. Is the price of the Focus over $4k? If so, the Kalkhoff might be cheaper.

The 2012 Ohm Urban you had did not have the new 48V battery. They are not available until late May, or so I was told by the SF and Seattle stores.

Shouldbeworking

No, the Ohm did not have the new battery, as you say. But if it did, it would be even heavier.

I'm having trouble finding a weight specs for the Jarifa Speed (Focus) and the Ohm Urban. I just picked them up and stood on my cheap Ikea scale, clearly not a great method, then subtracted my own supposed weight with the same scale. It showed 58 lbs for the Ohm, which could easily be off, and 43 lbs for the Focus, likewise not reliable.

The Kalkhoff pro connect does look very similar.

Here's the link to the Focus 2011:
https://www.newwheel.net/Store/Focus%...eed/index.html

profstack

The 2012 Ohm Urban is listed at 49#. The Kalkhoff e-bikes are as low as 46# (newer ProConnect) or up to 56# (Tasman). I imagine the Focus is on the lower side. The new (upcoming 2013) Focus models are apparently going with the Bionx system.

So, was the battery defective on the Urban you had?

I am still in the hunt for an e-bike and recently tried out a Kalkhoff and an Ohm Urban. Still undecided and looking for other options.

Shouldbeworking

Yes, the battery was apparently defective. No wonder the throttle felt like no help at all, and level 4 assist also wasn't much help.

The Kalkhoff Pro Connect does look like the Focus, maybe that's why SarahLou was so happy with it--I was surprised when I tried the Kalkhoff Tasman at how unimpressive it was.

I rode my Focus home up my hill yesterday and had fun. Good exercise for my legs, but I was not red and sweaty at arrival. I was only 7 minutes behind my husband and kids in the minivan.

Shouldbeworking

Ok, I spent some great time with the Focus this weekend and I officially LOVE it. It is FUN to ride, which is exactly what I wanted. It's like it reads my mind and knows JUST how fast I want to go and how much assist it needs to give me. I tried a really really long steep hill in my neighborhood, a 3-mile slog, and it was a good workout but not too much! I can't wait to leave work, because then I get to RIDE HOME on it!

Allen

They both have identical drive units to the one I have on my bike. I wonder why there is such a difference in their performance. The only difference I see between them is the Focus uses a derailer and the Tasman has an internal hub.
Glad you found one you like. Test driving does make the difference.

I do love Panasonic's pressure sensitive crank throttle.

CathyL

Oh, whoops -- I posted on your old thread before I saw this one. Great that you found a bike! How much did the Focus cost?

Richard60463

Have you tried zig zagging up the worst hills kinda like a snow skier going up hill? Assuming, of course, that you will not get run over by an automobile. This has the effect of leveling out the hill to where you might be able to make it.

Shouldbeworking

Richard, thanks. But then of course I"m in the opposite lane and risk running into a car coming around a blind curve.

Meanwhile I've gotten a Focus Jarifa Speed that works well on the hill--I still have to pedal but it's a fun workout and gets me home.

tylergeek

Shouldbeworking, thank you so much for posting your experience with the various electric bikes you've tried - I'm just starting researching bikes and the Ohm and the Focus are on my list. And thanks for posting the weight difference between the two - I have also had no luck finding the weight specs for the Focus on-line.

I'm in the SF area too - would you be willing to share the name of the store from which you purchased your bike? They sound so very supportive and customer success/satisfaction oriented. If not on this thread, then shoot me an email - my profile is set to accept emails (new to this forum, but I think that's what the check box I checked means).

- Tyler

Shouldbeworking

Tylergeek, the store in SF is "The New Wheel", in Bernal. As I described, they had several bikes that didn't work for me, and that surprised me because they are in SF and so should know about what works on 'our' hills. But they were reasonable and helpful, and did drive several other bikes 15 mi away to my house and work with me. And they ultimately did get me the Focus Jarifa Speed that I'm enjoying. I hope you get what you want and what works for you. As I said above, perhaps the Kalkhoff Pro Connect would be similar to the Focus.

Glad my posts could be of help to someone else--I myself got started on all this with SarahLou's thread from awhile back, so I know how it is to have someone else's research to build on.

tylergeek

That's the store I found on-line - so glad it was the one you had such a positive experience with! I didn't know they carried the Kettler and the Kalkhoff - can't wait to go to the store now and try out bikes I haven't thought of yet!

I'll have to go look up SarahLou's thread now! Thanks again for the help.

Shouldbeworking

Let us know how your own research pans out. If you end up wanting something that they don't offer at New Wheel, check out ebikessf.com. That would be for turning a regular bike into an ebike, but the guy there is very knowledgeable.

tylergeek

I'm reporting back after a couple of rounds of test rides. I haven't chosen a bike yet, but I'm getting closer.

Two weekends ago I went to New Wheel in SF and tried out the Ohm Urban, Ohm Urban SE, Focus Jarifa Sport, and BH Emotion Folding Volt.

1. Ohm Urban. This was my first experience with an electric bike, and my first experience with click shifting, so I asked the nice woman to go with me on the test ride. She and the guy who work there were both very nice and helpful, and had differing perspectives on things, which was interesting and useful. We headed out of the shop on the 3rd level of assist. I started pedaling, and almost immediately felt the assist. We went down a small incline for a ways, then up a fairly steep hill. I didn't get quite far enough down shifted for the hill, but made it up with moderate effort. We tooled around for a while, up and down various hills. I had never ridden a bike with suspension before, so that felt weird, and I've never had disc breaks before, they were kind of noisy (the bike lady said it probably needed to be adjusted). I was definitely grinning by the time we got back to the shop, but I didn't feel over-the-top impressed.

2. Ohm Urban SE. This time I took the test ride alone. I did mostly the same route we took the previous run. I didn't notice any improvement over the non-SE model really, but I think I was mostly just getting used to everything. On the hills, the motor seemed to be inconsistent in putting out power - I brought it back to the shop, and they hypothesized that it could be the battery, so we swapped it with the battery from the first bike. I still got the inconsistent power application up the hills. Not sure what was wrong. Not sure why I'd want the SE over the non-SE, just based on the test ride.

3. Focus Jarifa Sport. This bike has no suspension. It also only has 10 gears (the Ohms have 24), so I was pretty skeptical about the bike. I took similar routes to the Ohms, and damn if the bike didn't eat up the same hills! I really like the ride better too - perhaps it's just that the fix suspension was more familiar to me, or the angle of the seat to handlebars was more similar to my current bike's angle, but I felt more jazzed about the Focus than the Ohm. And, it has a top speed of 25-27, whereas the Ohm has a top speed of 20. More on that later. My only complaint about the bike was that the seat was super uncomfortable - I would immediately put a new seat on if I get this bike, as well as more ergonomically shaped grips. The Ohms had a really nice seat and really great grips - kudos to them.

4. Folding Volt. This bike looked ridiculous to me with its 20-inch wheels, but I wanted to try everything, so I took it for a spin. When I first started pedaling, I popped a wheelie, it had so much torque! Feeling a little like a clown, I headed up a hill. I actually made it up the moderately sloped bottom half of the hill just fine, but when I was on the hill, each time I pedaled the handle bars flexed towards me as I pulled to gain more power. Then when I hit the steeper part of the hill, I really had to expend a lot of energy to make it up. This was not a bike that was going to save me from showing up at work a sweaty mess, but it was more capable than I thought it would be - if you had a mostly flat commute with a few moderate hills, it would probably get the job done.

All in all, I had been riding for the good portion of 90 minutes at this point, and I only had a moderate sheen of sweat on top of my head. This electric bike idea seems to have legs!

Last weekend, I went to Suburban Bikes in Redwood City, CA to try the Stromer. This was actually one of the first electric bikes I saw on the net, so I was excited to give it a try.

5. Stromer. This bike is definitely heavy - ~64 pounds. I could tell when I was turning it 180 degrees when I got out of the shop. It only has 8 speeds, which also had me a little nervous. The handlebars are very high - this was the most upright electric bike I've tried. I used to live in Redwood City, so I knew some awesome hills to try the bike out on. The first two miles were pretty flat - the Stromer ate it up. Then I hit a very, very slight incline - one of those seemingly flat roads that you curse on a regular bike because you never get your rhythm going. The Stromer ate it up and burped. I then turned up into the hills. There's a 2-mile stretch with a pretty decent grade - I would definitely have worked up a sweat on my regular bike. The Stromer ate it up. I didn't get below 6th gear. The Stromer was very consistent with the power as well - no pooping out after being on the hill for a couple of miles. I felt like I had to throw something harder at it, so I headed up some even steeper inclines - the Stromer ate it up as I grinned from ear to ear. I still hadn't gotten below 4th gear, so I looked for some really gnarly hills to go up. I went down one hill, about 150 yards, and then back up. On my mountain bike, I may or may not have made it all the way up in first gear. The Stromer gave me bionic powers - I made it up in 3rd gear. At this point I was laughing. On my way back down to the flats, I took a wrong turn and went down a really, really steep hill into a cul de sac. I made the u-turn and headed back up - the Stromer again made the hill almost effortless on my part. I made it back to the bike shop 40 minutes later, having eaten 70% of the battery. I probably went 10 or 12 miles.

My overall impression of the Stromer is that it is an incredible bike - I literally didn't want to get off it when I got back to the bike shop. My concerns with the Stromer:
1. Like the Focus, it had a terrible seat - so terrible, that immediately upon sitting on it, my butt hurt, and 3 days later I still had residual soreness. Obviously another candidate for a new seat. Not a big deal.
2. The range - I went through 70% of the battery in 10 or 12 miles - granted, I was doing some intense hills, but that seems like pretty sucky range to me. My commute is only 6 miles, but if I had a longer commute ever, I'm not sure if this bike could handle it. There is a Deluxe model, and an Elite model, but they both seem to have the same batteries as the baseline model.
3. The 20 mph top speed. On the way back to the bike shop, I was on a flat part that was slightly downhill, so I put it in high gear and pedaled earnestly. Things went great until I hit 21-ish mph - then the motor cut out and I was suddenly pedaling a very heavy bike, until my speed went back under 20 when the motor kicked back in. Not so fun. I have an M1 motorcycle license, so I'm actually legal to ride an electric bike that goes over 20 mph, so I was going to research if you can turn off the restrictor. This gave me food for thought for the Ohm - I hadn't gotten going that fast during my test ride two weeks ago, so I'm not sure if I'll have the same "woah, this bike just got really heavy" moment with it.

This weekend, I'm heading back to New Wheel to try out the Ohm and the Focus again. I feel like I got a full test ride with the Stromer, whereas with the Ohm and the Focus I was still figuring out how the electric bike thing worked, and I also didn't take an extended ride over varied terrain. I'll report back my findings next week.

- Tyler

Shouldbeworking

Tyler, this is a great review. Thanks. My Ohm experience was similar. Heavy but good. I bought the Focus and am very happy with it. Yes, there is no suspension, the seat is painful and the grips not quite right. I'm getting a new seat for MOther's Day. The Stromer sounds interesting. I wouldn't want it that heavy, and I'm surprised the hub motor gave you that good a boost. But it has a great reputation. Please do report back, this is all great research and future readers will definitely benefit.