I got the 'okay' to post his email address. He said the 'stealthy' nature is only because he hasn't updated his website yet, but will soon. He's accepting orders for stoker pegs and he made it sound like he would discuss stoker stems with interested parties. (I may be intersted in that myself if he can make one about 200mm long!) Lastly, a new CF tandem frame is on his mind but no release date yet.Originally Posted by waynesulak
Feel free to contact him at bob@arizonatandems.com.
Strike the American Classic Speed Clips, they are incompatible with the CS-6700 cassette. see response to my inquiry below...
I purchased these back at the beginning of April and it is now June, but they still have not updated their website and say they can't. Hmmm.Hi,
I apologize for this confusion. Unfortunately, our web store has a miss print and we are currently unable to make corrections while we are upgrading the system.
Where it says the kits are not compatible with Ultegra 6800, it should read 6700.
Please feel free to return the clip kits, for a full refund;
Hi,
Today I finally tried installing these Speed Clips in a Ultegra CS-6700 11-28 (10spd) cassette. Unfortunately neither the "Ultegra" clips (too tall) or the "Dura Ace" (too short) clips work in this cassette.
The problem is obvious from the installation picture... your diagram shows the Ultegra cassette has cogs A-D with only 6 splines. However my cassette's "A" cog has 9 splines and only cogs B-D have 6 which means the clips do not sit down between all 4 cogs. So, I cannot use the taller Ultegra clips. I also tried the shorter Dura Ace clips which should span 3 cogs of that model but those are too short to reach the top D cog of the Ultegra cassette and remain loose within the cog set (can hear them clicking around when shaking the assembled cassette on the wheel.
Please advise if there is a remedy or why this product is not fitting.
Wonder if I'll get the shipping back too... $7 orig + $3 return = $10 shipping a $15 item.
Last edited by twocicle; 06-13-12 at 09:45 AM.
I am using them on my 6700 Ultegra 11-28 cassette. I very carefully ground a little bit of material off of each one so that they would be the correct length. Works great now! I was a Sales Engineer in the Custom Products Group at Caterpillar so I have learned to customize.
Wayne
Just catching up a bit...
Exactly... that's the logical end point where folks need to go. But, as cycling enthusiasts and equipment freaks we tend to focus on the weight of the machine not the gross vehicle weight when calculating our weight savings.
No doubt. Lighter wheels and lighter bikes always "feel" better and more lively. But, at the end of the day and at least while riding Wayne makes the real point on bicycle weight reductions: If your team weighs 350 lbs and your tandem weighs 40lb, going to a 27 lb tandem reduces the weight you must haul up hill by 3%, far less than the amazing 32% weight reduction that was achieved with the change in tandem. It's kind of the same story on adding aero wheels to a tandem. By themselves, some of the low-drag wheels can really demonstrate amazing reductions compared to conventional wheels in a wind tunnel. However, when you put them on a tandem where the biggest source of drag is the riders, those stand-alone drag reductions attributed to the wheels are quickly marginalized. It's just the way this stuff works once you look at the entire package.
All that said and getting back to the original theme of the thread, the quality of the ride we enjoy on our Calfee can't be matched. With over 12k miles on the clock since getting it sorted-out there's not a thing about it that I'd change. Our Topolino wheels have redeemed themsevles after the front wheel's teething pains were solved and have provided close to 5k miles of trouble-free service. The '07 Rolfs have also been fun given the placebo effect they provide, but we could sell those off and never think twice about not having them available. The 36h conventional wheels are still bomb-proof and available if needed for tours and have even been pressed into service on our triplet. Again, the ONLY nit that I've found with the Calfee design is the minor aero drag penalty those really big frame tubes yield once you get into the mid- to upper- 20 mph range. But even that is hard to quantify as sport / recreational cyclists.
Yeah, that's what they look like... definitely not the sexiest-looking solution, but no ill effect on a direct drive chain's function as you've discovered. I finally opted to remove the 1/2 link from our Calfee and, instead, put it on the Erickson such that both bikes still have the same saddle set-back over spindle... which is that I'm sensitive to.
So far, really big grins on the ride quality of this setup.
We can't put our finger on whether it is the Calfee frame, the Spinergy wheels, or simply getting rid of the Gatorskin tires used on our previous Santana Team AL (Sovereign w/16 wheels & carbon fork), but we can say the ride is at a whole level above.
I am still in the process of getting used to the much quicker steering input and cornering results... seems to require a lot less counter steer than the Santana.
My smallish stoker notices and loves the slightly more spacious cockpit in the back, not to mention the near single bike triple crank Q-factor (at 159mm it is within a couple mm) this is a much better fit to her bio needs. We are progressing very slowly to reintroduce her knees to tandeming again, with 80% single riding and 20% tandem at this stage. Results look very promising and she is very eager to go for more.
If there is any deficiency to gripe about it is the lack of Flightdeck computer with its nice gear indicator readout. The inline gear indicator I installed (rear only) is working fine as a 10spd gauge.
Last edited by twocicle; 06-13-12 at 11:53 AM.
It is more of a problem with the "width" but ok, I get what you are saying
I suppose I'll have to go back and disassemble the cassette, do some marking of the needed clip width and get the file/disk grinder in action.
Thanks for the suggestion.
It's basic math, but with a bunch of variables. Gates system can save 10 ounces or more over a timing chain setup. But as Ritterview showed, with the lightest available 10 speed chain, and very light timing rings, the difference gets much smaller.
So it depends on what chain/rings you're comparing it to.
From a previous post:
"Gates sync belt ring. 95 grams X 2 = 190 grams
Gates carbon drive belt 105 grams
Total weight of the Gates system = 295 grams
42 tooth Hegoa Chain ring. 35 grams X 2 = 70 grams
Campy Record 11 chain 337 grams
Total weight of chain drive system = 407 grams
407 - 295 = 112 grams or 3.95 ounces."
Last edited by merlinextraligh; 06-13-12 at 12:19 PM.
EPO all in my veins
Lately things just don’t seem the same
Actin’ funny, but I don’t know why
‘Scuse me while I pass this guy
I would change the eccentric with a tandems east modded cannondale also is u wanted a rear rack tandems also make a rear seat collar with rack boss and they also make a nice chain shield its a must for a calfee if u call tandems east for parts tell them you heard about them on bike fourmsWe recently sold our previous tandem and thought we might just build up a lower cost "beater" this time around. Then my stoker happen to stumble upon this new/old stock Calfee frame for sale from Richard Steele of Gold Country Cyclery in (near) Sacramento, CA. and the semi-hi tech/bling game was afoot again.
The Calfee decal count is definitely a touch on the high side. Not sure if those can be removed without harming the paint finish.
Attachment 244608
Here is the intended list of dodads for this new tandem. A few functional items are duplicates (cassettes & brakes) to allow swapping as needed. The initial stem and seatpost are just there to hold the frame in a workstand and hold the fork in place until the final steerer tube cut height is determined.
As you can see from the list above, I made a conscious decision to go alloy on the handlebars, stems and seatposts. The selection is still very lightweight but also durable and a lot more cost effective. Besides, I wanted to avoid problems attaching a seatpost rack on the back, aero bars on the front, and never liked the idea of having a stoker stem clamped on a carbon captain seatpost. With the carbon Calfee frame and AlphaQ fork, plus the Spinergy wheels, the ride should be plenty plush without needing the upper accessories to be carbon as well.Code:2007 Calfee Medium/Small Tetra. 145mm rear spacing Alpha Q fork paint matched. 700c 44mm rake. Cobalt Blue Opaque w/Horizontal fade SHIMANO --------- Ultegra: R601 175mm Captains crankset, w/BB6700 68mm R603 170mm Stokers crankset, w/BB6700 68mm 52/39/30 rings 6700 Brake calipers 6703 10spd triple (3x10) shifters 6703 front triple dérailleur 6700 11-28 cassette XTR M972 SGS rear dérailleur XT M771 11-34 cassette XT RT86 IceTech 203mm 6-bolt Rotor OTHER --------- Chris King NoThreadset (headset) Spinergy Tx2 tandem wheels Michelin Pro Race 25mm tires Avid BB7 rear disc caliper w/203mm IS adapter EBC Disc Brake Pads for Avid Mechanical Gold >> deleted >> Gates Carbon belt drive << deleted << Sram PC 1051 P-Lock 10-Speed chain Jagwire Racer Road Complete Brake and Derailleur Cable & Housing Kit Jagwire Hyper Slick Stainless tandem length cables Jagwire in-line cable adjusters Cinelli cork handlebar tape ISC Helicopter-OG Surface Guard Tape (8 mil Outdoor Grade) as frame saver Ritchey WCS EVO Curve 31.8mm 42cm drop bars captain & stoker 3T ARX 31.8 stems captain 120mm 6 degree & stoker 140mm 17degree Deda Zero100 seatposts captain & stoker Terry Fly Ti Captain, Terry Butterfly Ti Stoker Speedplay Zero pedals captain (stainless) & stoker (Ti) Cane Creek stoker pegs Arundel Sideloader carbon bottle cages Lezyne Road Drive pump
Starting with getting the Chris King headset installed at the local bike shop, needed a little headtube cleanup first. Don't freak out about the brake pads not lining up... it's a work in progress.
Update: Full completed build web album (currently without the Gates Belt Drive):
https://picasaweb.google.com/1095507...eat=directlink
Well, yes. I was using a straight comparison of the components on/off my setup. If using the lightest chain components the difference in weight will be closer.
Mute at this point, since Calfee never did get back to me about 71t sprockets. I figure at this point I'll wait for the CDX to go mainstream and then maybe persue the belt setup again.
After finding that the N-Gear Jump Stop (chain watcher) could not be mounted low enough and aligned at the correct height on this frame, I looked at other options. Forgoing the $90 carbon pie plate solution (available from Tandems East) because it would involve messing with the Bottom Bracket spacing, I chose to go with the K-Edge solution which is become a standard in high-end setups (SRAM is now including this chain watcher with it's top FD after Andy Schleck mis-shipped his chain last year at a critical moment in the TDF).
The K-Edge Clamp-on version (http://www.acecosportgroup.com/shop/...n-catcher.html) would not install properly on this Calfee as the lower waterbottle cage boss is right where the K-Edge clamp would go.
Enter the K-Edge Adapter Clamp (http://www.acecosportgroup.com/shop/...ter-clamp.html) and TRIPLE Chain Catcher (http://www.acecosportgroup.com/shop/...n-catcher.html), plus a new Ultegra 6703 Braze-on FD, for a combined weight of 138gm. That is only a 10gm weight penalty over the original Ultegra 6703 FD w/bracket (128gm) and no chain watcher.
The one problem with the above solution is likely caused by the K-Edge clamp adapter, as the new Braze-on FD now sits nearly 1/2cm further outboard than the original FD w/bracket, resulting in the new FD maxing out on the inward derailleur movement. I've included a couple photos comparing the two derailleurs at the adjusted range.
Note, while the above solutions will prevent the chain falling inside the inner chainring, none of these solutions will prevent chain suck on the underside (more of a problem on mtn bikes), so be aware of that.
As always, shop around for best pricing on parts (above links for info only).
Last edited by twocicle; 10-17-12 at 11:25 PM.
There must be some difference in my frame and yours as I was able to install the N-stop on mine with no problem. Mine is a 2011 small/small.
I am using the Dura ace clamp on front dérailleur.
There must be a difference in waterbottle cage boss location between our frames. On this frame, the N-Stop needed to be right where the boss is (see head-on photo above) and would not work higher (hit the FD) or lower (hit the crank spiders and would not otherwise keep the chain on). The original FD w/clamp actually mounted a bit lower than where the new K-Edge clamp is now, so there was zero room to try hacking a solution for the N-Stop.
I wonder if a K-Edge Road Clamp chain catcher would have worked with it's mounting clamp being located below the water bottle boss.
per my original K-Edge post:
...
The K-Edge Clamp-on version (http://www.acecosportgroup.com/shop/...n-catcher.html) would not install properly on this Calfee as the lower waterbottle cage boss is right where the K-Edge clamp would go.
...
Did not matter whether the double or triple length catcher was used, the distance was nowhere near correct to install other than from the Braze-on (or adapter) clamp position as I've done. Don't ask why I ended up with 2.
Since I have now moved to a Braze-on type FD, I should have added than I now have 2 Ultegra 6703 Front Derailleurs (type is with clamp), for sale.
- One FD is 100% unused, $45+ship
- Second FD is just off this tandem after a few rides. $30+ship.
PM me if interested.
It is interesting that you are having the same experience with the tandem clamp from K-edge regarding the derailleurs being to far outboard for the ultegra cranks. I had one of the first tandem clamps from them as I worked with Joe on chain catchers for our Calfee. I previously had Calfee cranks and just replaced them with the new Ultegra cranks and this issue popped up. With my old cranks the clamp worked great because the opposite problem occurred as there was not enough travel outward so shifting to the big ring was not great with any load on it. I think the smaller Q factor has moved the chain lines inward a mm or so on the new Ultegra cranks. I am going back to my old dura ace frt derailleur and conventional clamped K-edge with these cranks. I have a small frame as do our friends and we were both able to use a normal K-edge without problems on the water bottle mount. It mounts above it and uses the long triple arm.
If you go to this link you can see, if you look closely where my bosses and the N-stop is located.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Ultegra-Cranks
Right. This K-Edge adapter clamp positioning the FD further outboard by .5cm is a lot. It is not feasible to move the right crank out far enough to make a difference for the FD, and anyway that would be a detriment to the drivetrain-rider alignment.
Otherwise, I'm considering finding a new FD adapter clamp that positions the FD closer to the seat tube. Competitve Cyclist claims the new Di2 brackets will work with any Shimano derailleur, but those are way over priced at the moment. Maybe an ugly old silver Shimano clamp will be my next try, though not as light weight at least getting the mechanics to function properly is more important.
I'm going to contact K-Edge and see what they have to say about their clamp.
Last edited by twocicle; 10-19-12 at 02:57 PM.
After waiting a couple weeks and resending my inquiry to K-Edge, still no response. Fortunately, the FD with their adapter clamp is working fine at the inward limit and without hacking a modification. Just be aware, the K adapter clamp moves the FD .5cm further outward from the seat tube than a FD with a built-in clamp.
On the latest Calfee feedback, stoker is really happy and riding without any tandem induced knee pain! With the more standard rear 145mm spacing and a single-like Q-Factor, this is the first time since 2003 (and the 160mm spacing/Q-width headache) she has not had any problems. Wow, we took a big chance building up a new ride and it seems to have paid off in dividends. We are finally back on a tandem and riding pain free! Very happy.
Hydration configuration and how to save 1lb of dead weight:
In the photos above you can see that we switched from larger & heavier Polar 26oz capacity bottle to the mid-size 22oz Camelback (verfied by measuring cup test). Yes we lose 4oz fluid per bottle, but the bottle itself weighs quite a bit less too.
The Polar bottles were much taller and a constant source of dripping water and sport drink on the frame. The more compact Camelback bottles have a top that locks & a squirt mechanism takes a bit to get used to while riding, but otherwise seems superior. The smaller Camelback bottle size also solved access issues for the stoker that she has had on both the tandem and her compact single.
Overall, weight savings from just the empty 4 bottles we switched out is equal to the savings typically found by installing a Gates Carbon Belt setup, and quite a bit more weight saved when factoring in the water load as shown below...
Polar:
26oz capacity
146gm empty
total full weight each: 852gm
4x 852gm = 3408gm (3.4kg!) = 7.51lbs for full Polar bottles. Yikes!!
Camelback:
22oz capacity
100gm empty
total full weight each: 722gm
4x 722gm = 2888gm (2.9kg) = 6.37lbs <<< still, that weight is near equal to the 2007 Calfee frame!
Camelback weight savings (4 bottles):
empty: 184gm (.4lbs)
full: 520gm (1.15lbs)
Fun factoids:
- The 4oz less per bottle in the Camelbacks has not been noticable to us from a hydration point.
- The time it takes my stoker to use up 2 full 22oz bottles is about the max time she can handle between potty breaks.
As always, the biggest weight diff is usually body composition. Reviewing photos above will reveal the captain had a lot more than 1lb savings in the 2nd photo taken some 3 months later.
Last edited by twocicle; 03-15-13 at 02:50 PM.
Curious if you've had any flats with the Pro Race 25mm tires?
None while we used them.
For the past 1.5 months we've been on the skinnier 25mm Conti 4-Seasons. Ride quality is a little harsher and they don't float through loose gravel as well as fatter tires would. Otherwise, cornering performance is more responsive - likely due to the pointier tire profile. I'd say that these Contis in a 28mm are probably closer to the Mich with 25mm width.
If the eccentric is still an issue, might want to check the Rodriguez web site as it has all of them from oldest to the newest designs including the measurements so you can figure out what will fit your frame.
BTW: That is one very sweet looking ride!
Thanks. Can you believe we have posted this for sale in order to add 3lbs for S&S couplers?! :/ Wifey likes the Calfee so much she wants to travel more easily with it into wee airports and countries with weeny baggage handlers.
The eccentric is not an issue for us as we use standard Shimano BB6700 bottom brackets (FSA MegaExo is similar). It was just under discussion about available options for using other eccentrics. I think it becomes an issue if you have a bottom bracket type (square taper spindle with unsealed bearings?) that pushes out on the eccentric sides, which is when you need an expander type eccentric that is not effected by that. It's a mute point otherwise.
--- SOLD ---
see: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...re-opportunity
We are looking at moving to a Tetra S&S version to help us fly into various nooks and crannies around the world, and take TGVs when needed. I have to come to terms with adding 2.5lbs to the base frame weight :/
We travel with our coupled Calfee extensively and I can almost guarantee you will not even think about the added weight when you are riding in some spectacular place far away from home with your wife. We just returned from Turkey with ours and we have memories from these trips that are priceless and couplers make it much easier. Enjoy your new ride!!!!!
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